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Author Topic: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )  (Read 16068 times)

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05omegav6

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #135 on: 28 December 2012, 19:48:53 »

Tried to do a spot of window shopping on the blackboots site earlier, but computer said no :-\ wouldn't even attempt to load the shop page :-\
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #136 on: 28 December 2012, 21:54:57 »

Are wheels in motion still a member here?

I was going to pm Tony a link, but couldnt find them in the member search.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=154
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Entwood

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #137 on: 28 December 2012, 22:16:50 »

Tried to do a spot of window shopping on the blackboots site earlier, but computer said no :-\ wouldn't even attempt to load the shop page :-\

I still get in fine .. to the main site

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk

but the link to tyres fails ...  :(

:)
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #138 on: 29 December 2012, 02:04:08 »

Are wheels in motion still a member here?

I was going to pm Tony a link, but couldnt find them in the member search.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=154
Ta. :)
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2woody

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #139 on: 30 December 2012, 21:18:48 »

What am I missing? :-\

...and don't say custard. ;D

sorry again, Chris....

How it works is this.....

The car manufacturer designs a car and chooses a hub height and a wheel revs per mile. It then goes shopping to tyre manufacturers and tries either prototypes or simulators on the manufacturer's first guess at the tyre. Of course the weight is important too, but the plain fact, at least for passenger cars is that the tyre manufacturer would never develop a tyre with a load index less than likely for any vehicle.

It certainly isn't the case that the manufacturer requires a tyre to match the load index that it has designed.

of course, the manufacturer and tyre supplier keep working together and the detail geometry, construction - and by that, I mean things like tread block radii, etc., and compounds, so that any potential problems have been ireoned out prior to launch.
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RobseyMV6

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #140 on: 31 December 2012, 00:21:31 »

Why you running 235 40 18 Chris?

245 40 18 here, find 245 to big?
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #141 on: 31 December 2012, 01:22:02 »

Why you running 235 40 18 Chris?

245 40 18 here, find 245 to big?
yes very slightly too wide, slight rubbing on the outside edge on the wheel arch liner under full compression with irmscher springs giving 30mm drop. Only slight.

10mm less width and all is well.

Irmscher recommend -1.40 camber with their suspension which might give clearance.
But -1.40 is too aggressive on tyre wear, and too twitchy in a straight line. Mine is set to -1.10 as normal.
So went for 235.

You prefer 245 width?
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #142 on: 31 December 2012, 03:49:47 »

What am I missing? :-\

...and don't say custard. ;D

sorry again, Chris....

How it works is this.....

The car manufacturer designs a car and chooses a hub height and a wheel revs per mile. It then goes shopping to tyre manufacturers and tries either prototypes or simulators on the manufacturer's first guess at the tyre. Of course the weight is important too, but the plain fact, at least for passenger cars is that the tyre manufacturer would never develop a tyre with a load index less than likely for any vehicle.

It certainly isn't the case that the manufacturer requires a tyre to match the load index that it has designed.

of course, the manufacturer and tyre supplier keep working together and the detail geometry, construction - and by that, I mean things like tread block radii, etc., and compounds, so that any potential problems have been ireoned out prior to launch.
ok so Mr tyre maker turns up, and his tyres tramline like a bitch, what does he do to fix it, exactly?

And let's say you've got 18's fitted, what tyres would you buy? Exactly? :)
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RobseyMV6

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #143 on: 31 December 2012, 08:40:28 »

Why you running 235 40 18 Chris?

245 40 18 here, find 245 to big?
yes very slightly too wide, slight rubbing on the outside edge on the wheel arch liner under full compression with irmscher springs giving 30mm drop. Only slight.

10mm less width and all is well.

Irmscher recommend -1.40 camber with their suspension which might give clearance.
But -1.40 is too aggressive on tyre wear, and too twitchy in a straight line. Mine is set to -1.10 as normal.
So went for 235.

You prefer 245 width?

This time i'm not on lowering spring and can't remember if on my mv6 at the time with 245 but fair call, got 235's for from on plod as i think fronts rub on turn...  :(
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2woody

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #144 on: 01 January 2013, 23:48:59 »

Mr tyre manufacturer will go away and try altering compound and tread pattern until it works. Usually. I have known them give up, tho.

On 18's - I usually buy a set before each track-day and then finish them off on the road. Cheapest, always. On the couple that I've had that tramlined, I've always found it to be the car and not the tyres.
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #145 on: 02 January 2013, 01:01:46 »

Mr tyre manufacturer will go away and try altering compound and tread pattern until it works. Usually. I have known them give up, tho.

On 18's - I usually buy a set before each track-day and then finish them off on the road. Cheapest, always. On the couple that I've had that tramlined, I've always found it to be the car and not the tyres.
since these ao1 where fitted, I think the rear wb bushes have failed, and the steering idler was replaced.

I could pick out the differences with the steering idler before and after. Slight steering play and a creak.

But I can't feel any difference with the rear wb bushes. ...another creak has developed so i need to check them again. But they where fine when ao1 where fitted because I checked while the car was jacked at the tyre fitters.

So, as I've made that about as clear as mud;
No tram lining.
Mo came off with worn in/outside edges and plenty of tread in the middle.
Rear bushes checked, and fine, while jacked at tyre fitters.
Ao1 went on, drove it away from the tyre fitters, instant tram lining.
Creak and slight play in idler, replaced, slightly better steering, tramlining no change.
Different creak developed, might be rear wb bushes, tramlining is same.

Conclude, mo don't tram line, ao1 do. Why?
Not tread pattern, it's exactly the same.
Don't think it's compound, grip and wear is very similar Afaict.
It's the narrower ao1 (235wide) the plays up so its not to do with width.
Mo where on both sets of sport stars in et30 and 38. No tramlining, it's not the et.
It's not the car as the before and after tyre change was night and day.
Ao1 pressures tried between 28 psi to 35. No affect on tramlining, just harsher ride.

IMO, it's the construction of the tyre, unless anyone else can think of another aspect that we could eliminate. ...?

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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #146 on: 02 January 2013, 01:08:13 »

Also, TheBoy has a sweet handling mv6 with worn Dunlop sport max TT.

He also has an elite with other issues, but new sc5. To me, the sc5 are poor in respect to tram lining.

The wheels have been swapped between the two cars. I wonder how the mv6 drives now...?
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aaronjb

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #147 on: 02 January 2013, 12:16:25 »

How many sets of ao1 have you had? It's not impossible to get a bad tyre..

What about the runout indicators - can you remember where they were and if you had a matched pair of tyres put on the front?

Just wondering if you could be chasing ghosts, so to speak..
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feeutfo

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #148 on: 02 January 2013, 12:41:31 »

Just two ao1 on the front.

Can't remember the lines being present, but I'll cirtainly look. :y

I know the mo red and green lines hung in there really well. Still present once removed.
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TheBoy

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Re: Tyre construction ( bit boring! and pic heavy )
« Reply #149 on: 02 January 2013, 18:25:34 »

I think you're still looking at it too simplistically. I suspect there is more than just "number of plys" or "sidewall material" etc etc between manufacturer specific versions of a specific tyre. In fact, you already know that in visual differences between the MO and AO1 variants.

Its more than likely that the compound will vary. The tread pattern will likely remain the same for a specific "model" of tyre, such as SC3.
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