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[geoffr70]

It is a fact, they see Brits turn up who can't be arsed go do the job, the next day they don't come back.

[Bionic]

  Please dont go down the obese road....I am soon to go back to Skeggy area for my regular fishing jaunts and I see enough of them in Skeggy in their electric scooters. Not all, if any at all, can have the usual excuse of 'gland trouble' or an ilness that made them lose control of their overeating. Skeggy maybe the 'northern place' that should retain the name of the fat capital during the holiday season.
  I still grin when the twice the size (literally) of me dietition nurse informed me that I was a mere single stone (6Kg) overweight. Looking at her gave me more than enough reason to start a weight loss regime! Perhaps that is why the NHS employ the huge ones in those roles?
Ah well....its still a happy new year despite all of the miseries gits in my local area. Even managed not to rack up any debt on the cards again this year so will be comfortably off. I can't feel sorry or sympathetic towards those who now face ages of high repayments and will keep on borrowing year after year. Simple solution is to spend what you can afford and already have.
  I reckon that the availablity of credit cards should be curtailed to one per person with a maximum of £1000.00 credit limit or 12c times the nett annual salary/income per card holder and only given to those who have a proven nett income of that sum.
  Debit cards are no problem because you cannot spend what you do not have in the bank! They are just as useful and available to pay for anything bought exactly the same as with a credit card. The only difference - the biggy - is that you are not using or paying for credit and so building up accumulative debts. This country now apparently has the 'honour' of having the highest levels of personal debt in the EU. Did the all follow the lead of Labour and spent, spent, spent, borrow, borrow, borrow until we achieved the distiction of having the highest personal debt awarded to us? How sad.
Now for the garden at last its fine..........and I can get away from the deadly boring and constantly repetitive BTVision and Freeview tv offerings. Roll on March when my contract ends with BT when I can go back to Sky. Might even get issed on that day 

[Sir Tigger KC]

It is a fact, they see Brits turn up who can't be arsed go do the job, the next day they don't come back.

Geoff, the reason that many of these factories, food processing plants and distribution centres are staffed almost exclusively by Eastern Europeans is because as soon as New Labour opened the doors, the big companies dropped the pay to minimum wage.  This meant that many locals were better off on benefits especially if they had kids. 

I know this for a fact as in 2004 I was working as a lorry driver for a large transport company that specialised in chilled and frozen foods.  A large Sainsbury's distribution centre in Bristol always comes to mind in these conversations where pre 2004 the workforce was pretty much all local people and the wages were good.  However, after 2004 the pay dropped to minimum wage and within a year most of the workers were Polish or other Eastern European. 

Although the pay was good before 2004 most of the workforce were on short-term contracts or were agency workers.  A local bloke told me that his contract was up for renewal and despite having worked there for a couple of years his wage was being dropped to a level where he wouldn't be able to afford his mortgage.... The Eastern Europeans can afford to work for the low wage as many of them live 15 to a small terrace house and have minimal outgoings!!

In my opinion it's a national scandal, but no politicians will bring it up for fear of being accused of racism!!!! 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Well said Tiger-Hayes!

You have summed up very well the problem.  If business can obtain a cheaper work force then, if it is legal, they will to increase their profits.  Sod the workforce that have served them well for so long and helped to build the business, as all the owners care about is profit!

Why should someone live on a pittance after working hard and long for an employer, when the boss decides to cut the wages paid with new contracts being introduced.  The problem nationwide is far too many are prepared to work for peanuts, and are not paid the true worth of their labour.

It is not about immigration or racism, it is about everyone being paid a true "working wage", and not needing state benefits to survive on.  It is wrong, unjust and damaging to our nation and its future.

The young of our country must however start in employment, and usually on the lowest rung of the ladder with a wage to match.  That is the reality that exists now, and always has done as I well know.  But what we then must do is to give those youngsters every hope of being able to climb that ladder, with good training, to better paid, more interesting positions.  The excuse the employers have got now, with so much cheap labour about, is that they can keep many on the bottom rung of the ladder, and therefore a basic wage, for far too long.  No wonder the young are dissatisfied and wanting something better.  I would be, and I am sure so would you all!

Time for change has come, and it is time for a whole package of measures; better education, superior on the job training; apprenticeships in all mass employment businesses, let alone smaller ones; large civil engineering projects; central finance agreements to companies to extend their existing business, and money to create new ones, especially in engineering and the sciences; a national policy to "Buy British", and not for instance buying trains in Germany that our companies can construct; and generally a mass movement to bring our industries up to 21st century standards, and away from 19th century practice and mentality.

[Bionic]

  Good on you both Tiger and Lizzie.....people after my own heart. Problem is now they are here and grabbing every job they can and still being unwanted by many of those Brits whose jobs they are stealing how do we get rid of them? Perhaps Labour, the party who caused the problem in the first place, will come up with the solution....NOT. It was just a bit more proof that the Labour party cannot ever be trusted to govern. They lost my vote permanently when Blair got in because I knew first hand of, and experienced his pattern of politics from where he began his political career in the North Esat before I moved south.
Now I just do not know who to trust.....perhaps the Queen should do as old and hold all of the power. And hopefully have the power to remove heads (literally). At least it could not be any worse for us lowly ones.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Good on you both Tiger and Lizzie.....people after my own heart. Problem is now they are here and grabbing every job they can and still being unwanted by many of those Brits whose jobs they are stealing how do we get rid of them? Perhaps Labour, the party who caused the problem in the first place, will come up with the solution....NOT. It was just a bit more proof that the Labour party cannot ever be trusted to govern. They lost my vote permanently when Blair got in because I knew first hand of, and experienced his pattern of politics from where he began his political career in the North Esat before I moved south.
Now I just do not know who to trust.....perhaps the Queen should do as old and hold all of the power. And hopefully have the power to remove heads (literally). At least it could not be any worse for us lowly ones.

An absolute monarchy again Bionic?  Interesting, but this country tried that one and it was not good...........................

As for everything else; there certainly needs to be a big change, and harsh decisions made on how far we escalate our population over the next ten years.  A halt for now we be in order to allow our civil system and infrasture to catch up.  A halt to EU dictates, at least, is also a requirement now!

[Kevin Wood]

You can't really blame businesses for exploiting the fact that plentiful labour is available at the minimum wage. The market was flooded with unskilled labourers so the price came down, and any competent business is run to minimise costs.

What you have to ask, IMHO, is why it's preferable not to work at all than accept your pay being cut to the minimum wage? There isn't much point in having a minimum wage if you can have a more comfortable life on benefits, so minimum wage too low, or benefits too generous?

Of course, if we decide, as a nation, that we want a low level of unemployment, reasonable benefits and a minimum wage that allows a comfortable lifestyle, then we have to control immigration based on the skills the country actually needs, not allow a flood of unskilled workers when we already have a glut of them and decreasing opportunities due to a shift away from manufacturing industry. Sadly, Brussels have tied our hands on that one.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

You can't really blame businesses for exploiting the fact that plentiful labour is available at the minimum wage. The market was flooded with unskilled labourers so the price came down, and any competent business is run to minimise costs.

What you have to ask, IMHO, is why it's preferable not to work at all than accept your pay being cut to the minimum wage? There isn't much point in having a minimum wage if you can have a more comfortable life on benefits, so minimum wage too low, or benefits too generous?

Of course, if we decide, as a nation, that we want a low level of unemployment, reasonable benefits and a minimum wage that allows a comfortable lifestyle, then we have to control immigration based on the skills the country actually needs, not allow a flood of unskilled workers when we already have a glut of them and decreasing opportunities due to a shift away from manufacturing industry. Sadly, Brussels have tied our hands on that one.

Those points hit it in one Kevin

In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees.  As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain.  

[Kevin Wood]

Those points hit it in one Kevin

In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees.  As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain.

Indeed. We need one. Employment is not a system that will somehow find a happy medium when dozens of uncoordinated, haphazard policies contribute to it. It must be actively managed, and all government policy (and those inherited from Brussels) must pull towards a sensible goal.

All pigs fuelled and ready for take-off.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Those points hit it in one Kevin

In a capitalist system the market dictates what transpires in terms of what is produced, how much is made, the price of the goods, and the amount the manufacturer can pay his employees.  As I have stated previously, National policy must be of increasing our industrial base, training employees in the skills they require in the 21st century, whilst ensuring the supply of labour (from overseas especially) matches demand from our businesses, and what our Nation can comfortably sustain in terms of the financial outlay and the infrasture of Britain.

Indeed. We need one. Employment is not a system that will somehow find a happy medium when dozens of uncoordinated, haphazard policies contribute to it. It must be actively managed, and all government policy (and those inherited from Brussels) must pull towards a sensible goal.

All pigs fuelled and ready for take-off.

..........and painted pink!

[geoffr70]

I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.

You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.

Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.

Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.

[cem_devecioglu]

   interesting debate..
 
but I dont see anyone offering a real solution.. still trying to solve the problems in a system that already create it

[tigers_gonads]

I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.

You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.

Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.

Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.

Maybe we could start a Omega Owners knitting club 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.

You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.

Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.

Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.

What the hell are you on about!

It is easy; if you are not interested in the subjects posted, and the following conversations, then just do not read them.  But do not become objectionable with members on here who like to discuss involved and detailed debate.

To those with an once of intelligence it is not a case of trying "to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle".

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I didn't bother reading all three of your long boring posts. There's too many people on here who can't accept other peoples point of view, then try to bore them to death/bamboozle them with waffle.

You're trying to tell me black is white. People don't want to start at the bottom, on unskilled low paid work, young or not. That's a fact. If you don't like it, tough.

Anyway, I think Bionic needs something constructive and positive to occupy his mind instead of constantly posting boring negative stuff.

Lizzie is a prime example of someone who can't accept different thoughts from her own, probably due to insecurity.

..........and what's more you have proved the point that if you do not read "long boring posts" you can never really grasp what others are saying.

As for me suffering from insecurity; how you do not know me!!

In fact I think it is you who has a problem with insecurity, as you do not like other people talking to each other and expressing points of view.  How very sad.