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[feeutfo]

Or both on one device.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/

[Martian]

A bloody good idea, however the e-reader screen is just too small IMO.

Now if Samsung take that idea and transfer it to the Nexus, I reckon they'll take the market overnight.

[TheBoy]

I don't use an e-reader, as they are not suitable for proper books, only story books.

However, Mrs TB has been a Kindle fan for a couple of years, so I asked her. Forgetting the form factor of that particular example, her immediate thoughts were it was flawed:
Battery life - she goes away for a few days, she does not take a charger.
Weight - with an LCD, and a larger battery, its going to be too heavy for book reading.
Design - in a larger form factor, you will always be holding up by the bottom screen, meaning always cleaning fingerprints.
Durability - going to be difficult to protect both screens. If in a case, you will always be having to flip it round.

[Martian]

Battery life - she goes away for a few days, she does not take a charger.

That can happen with any electrical device, however finding a 5V supply is quite easy these days thanks to the unified standard.

Weight - with an LCD, and a larger battery, its going to be too heavy for book reading.

Mrs TB's Kindle weighs 60g more than the Nexus 7.

Design - in a larger form factor, you will always be holding up by the bottom screen, meaning always cleaning fingerprints.

The OH has had her Nexus in a case from day one, no real issues with fingerprints TBH.

Durability - going to be difficult to protect both screens. If in a case, you will always be having to flip it round.

Gorilla Glass is pretty tough where scratching is concerned, although having such a beast in a case would be slightly irksome if you have to keep removing it to swap screens.

[pscocoa]

I don't use an e-reader, as they are not suitable for proper books, only story books.

However, Mrs TB has been a Kindle fan for a couple of years, so I asked her. Forgetting the form factor of that particular example, her immediate thoughts were it was flawed:
Battery life - she goes away for a few days, she does not take a charger.
Weight - with an LCD, and a larger battery, its going to be too heavy for book reading.
Design - in a larger form factor, you will always be holding up by the bottom screen, meaning always cleaning fingerprints.
Durability - going to be difficult to protect both screens. If in a case, you will always be having to flip it round.

Agree with this - I have Sony reader which is easy to use and compact and good to read from but I have so many proper books already that I do not use the Sony as much as thought. Having said that I do not take  books on trains/ planes as much as I did opting to use the Sony. Also have an Ipad but never used it for books as it feels too big.

[Kevin Wood]

Too small for proper reading, as said, I guess, but I like the idea of e-paper on a phone. Guessing power consumption is probably not an issue, given that, if going away, you would be planning on keeping your phone charged anyway, and you only need to take it out of sleep for a few milliseconds every time you turn a page.

I'd like to see a phone with just the e-paper, in some respects. Display can be updated when a message arrives so no "polling" the phone to see if anything has happened. Backlit LCD displays don't half cane the battery on a normal smart phone. Won't be any good for @rsebook / idiotter addicts, of course, but I find the Kindle web browser adequate for the odd little bit of mobile surfing I need to do. If I want to do anything more, I get my netbook out.

The Kindle is hardly durable, either. Pretty darned fragile, I'd say. Its' lack of rigidity and the tendency for the display to die if it's even slightly twisted mean you have to be pretty careful when taking it away, IME.

[TheBoy]

Battery life - she goes away for a few days, she does not take a charger.

That can happen with any electrical device, however finding a 5V supply is quite easy these days thanks to the unified standard.

Weight - with an LCD, and a larger battery, its going to be too heavy for book reading.

Mrs TB's Kindle weighs 60g more than the Nexus 7.

Design - in a larger form factor, you will always be holding up by the bottom screen, meaning always cleaning fingerprints.

The OH has had her Nexus in a case from day one, no real issues with fingerprints TBH.

Durability - going to be difficult to protect both screens. If in a case, you will always be having to flip it round.

Gorilla Glass is pretty tough where scratching is concerned, although having such a beast in a case would be slightly irksome if you have to keep removing it to swap screens.

Battery life - you're missing the point, with a standard e-reader, she doesn't have to remember to charge it, or have to beg/borrow/steal a charger whilst away. It sits in her handbag, ready for all occasions.

Weight - a Nexus 7 would need a car battery to be as useful as an e-reader (for reading books), due to poor battery life.

Design - if a combined device, as shown in that link, had a case, you'd be constantly removing and flipping it round in its case, detracting from usefulness.



The solution, in our mind, is stick with 2 devices.

[TheBoy]

Too small for proper reading, as said, I guess, but I like the idea of e-paper on a phone. Guessing power consumption is probably not an issue, given that, if going away, you would be planning on keeping your phone charged anyway, and you only need to take it out of sleep for a few milliseconds every time you turn a page.

I think the discussion was on a tablet sized device - mobile would be too small, thus a non-starter

I'd like to see a phone with just the e-paper, in some respects. Display can be updated when a message arrives so no "polling" the phone to see if anything has happened. Backlit LCD displays don't half cane the battery on a normal smart phone. Won't be any good for @rsebook / idiotter addicts, of course, but I find the Kindle web browser adequate for the odd little bit of mobile surfing I need to do. If I want to do anything more, I get my netbook out.

I think constant wifi polling, 3G, email checks, gps etc etc have more impact on smartphone battery life than screen, unless you are always playing on the bloody thing, as the screen is mostly off.

The Kindle is hardly durable, either. Pretty darned fragile, I'd say. Its' lack of rigidity and the tendency for the display to die if it's even slightly twisted mean you have to be pretty careful when taking it away, IME.

Yup, dead fragile. I wonder if its to do with the screen technology, as I've seen a metal cased Sony one with the tell-tale signs of screen damage, yet no physical marks on the front? Amazon could do a lot more to make it more rigid.

After breaking her first (which Amazon replaced ), Mrs TB always, without fail, has it in a case. Thus a dual screen device would be a PITA.

[Kevin Wood]

Yup, dead fragile. I wonder if its to do with the screen technology, as I've seen a metal cased Sony one with the tell-tale signs of screen damage, yet no physical marks on the front? Amazon could do a lot more to make it more rigid.

Yep, failure is exactly like the old LCDs used to die. There's obviously a glass layer in the display somewhere.

After breaking her first (which Amazon replaced ), Mrs TB always, without fail, has it in a case. Thus a dual screen device would be a PITA.

I'm not so sure. A mobile phone / tablet style case is much more rigid, due to the fact that they have a frame formed by the side panels whereas the kindle has no side panels but just a slightly bulged rear panel. A bit thicker and heavier, perhaps, but worth it to make it more robust?

Of course, the larger the display, the more difficult it's going to be to house it in a rigid enough case to be durable, and the more prone it's going to be to impacts to the display surface itself.

Given that it's necessarily a large device, though, it's a bit of a limitation that you can't just chuck it in your hand luggage, as it's too big to fit in a pocket, etc.

[Murph]

I use Cool  Reader on my Galaxy S2.
I know the screen size would be an issue here but then the program can be installed on any Android tablet (my missus has it on her Motorola Xoom) and it would be ideal.

I also have a Samsung E-reader but tbh I don't use it much as I can now carry my books with me on my phone.

[TheBoy]

I'm not so sure. A mobile phone / tablet style case is much more rigid, due to the fact that they have a frame formed by the side panels whereas the kindle has no side panels but just a slightly bulged rear panel. A bit thicker and heavier, perhaps, but worth it to make it more robust?

As said, seen a Sony reader with the same screen damage, and that is metal framed around the edge (a design flaw in itself - uncomfortably cold to touch until its warmed up), giving rigidity.  I did wonder if shock alone, without direct pressure on screen, is enough to damage e-ink screens?

Obviously the amazon device is prone to twisting as well, which won't help a long life.

[TheBoy]

I use Cool  Reader on my Galaxy S2.
I know the screen size would be an issue here but then the program can be installed on any Android tablet (my missus has it on her Motorola Xoom) and it would be ideal.

I also have a Samsung E-reader but tbh I don't use it much as I can now carry my books with me on my phone.

All smartphones have some form of book reader. But its universally accepted that LCDs are poor for reading on compared to e-ink displays.

[Murph]

I have both and can see the benefits of E-ink displays, but the LCD display and format of Cool Reader are also quite easy on the eye.
Of course it's all down to personal preference.

[Kevin Wood]

I did wonder if shock alone, without direct pressure on screen, is enough to damage e-ink screens?

I wouldn't be surprised. With that large a screen area, the centre of the screen is probably not well supported. Shock it and it will be deflected, maybe enough to break it.

[feeutfo]

I've done the same as most of you guys, and attributed the design to what suits my needs best, by way of the tablet specific title in my case, rather than take the idea on its own merits.

But having said that, our predicament when looking for a device for H was a perfect example. She wanted an e reader primarily, purely for reading. But had serious issues justifying the expense of the kindle paperwhite she wanted for reading, against the functionality available with a tablet with web access.

If I didn't have a tablet already, she would have gone for a tablet and left the kindle in the shelf. E reader being too specific, a one trick pony.

And that my point really. In today's market, there's no room for the single minded approach of e ink alone. Take tv's. finally someone has seen the idiocy of having one system for a pc, one system for home cinema, one system for tv and put the whole lot in one package as a smart tv that does the lot. (Ok it needs work but it will get there)

To me, it's a static system, or it's portable. It's a screen too big to cary, or it's small enough to be with you where ever you go.

Either way, it's got to do everything to be competitive in gadget land, and given ereaders by nature are a portable device, this does everything. Seemples.


To me, a dual screen design is a perfect compliment to a mobile screen of any size. We know the eye strain of an LCD display but is also much more capable than e ink, we know the battery life as way better with eink and that eye strain is non existent. So by nature, we know we can have the best of both worlds with this device, all you have to do is turn it over to suit your needs at the time.

I think it's genious. Well actually, i tend go ober play the use of common sense on the rare occasdions it shows up....it's progression of the mobile form. Naturally.