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[Sir Tigger KC]

We have just overtaken France as Germany,s biggest trading partner which may provide more leverage,but it also casts more doubt on the argument that EU countries will freeze us out if we leave.

I expect that means that Germany exports more stuff to Britain than to France, rather than the UK selling more stuff to Germany than France does.... 

[albitz]

That may be so,but would they want to cut that outlet off if we resigned from the club ? I very much doubt it.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I listened to part of Cameron's speech  before I had to go for a meeting this morning.


But I did catch his point that it is no good voting on either getting out, or staying in ,the EU before the flux that is the Union settles down and Britain knows fully what is at stake, after re-negotiations take place that could dramatically the UK's position.

I am certainly fed up with the EU's actions, or not, but I must admit to seeing Cameron's point of view.  It is scary to consider it, but maybe at last he is becoming focused!

PS I am not going to vote yet as far more data and time has got to be revealed and pass before a considered opinion can be finally decided upon.

The big question is anyway, will the EU survive?

[Kevin Wood]

The big question is anyway, will the EU survive?

Indeed. And if it doesn't, can we avoid being further embroiled in it when it does come crashing down?

I suspect that's a question of whose economy crashes first, the eurozone or ours. Not looking great for either currently.

[redelitev6]

Cameron knows fine well he's going to lose the next election so that gets him off the hook , devious sod 

[Nickbat]

I must admit to having shamelessly copied this comment from elsewhere. Whoever posted it has the situation spot on.

So what would happen in the unlikely event that:
(A) Cameron wins a general election in 2015 then
(B) renegotiates our position in the EU then
(C) we have a referendum on that position in 2017 and then
(D) We vote “IN” and then
(E) our renegotiated position in a new treaty is then vetoed by other EU member states?

It took 10 years for the Constitutional Treaty to become finally ratified as the Lisbon Reform Treaty and this next Treaty will be a LOT more contentious than that one.

There is no way in hell that Cameron can renegotiate a new treaty in which we will get our demands met AND have it ratified by all 26 other EU member state’s governments by the time of a referendum in 2017. That is OBVIOUS. To even pretend to suggest otherwise is to treat the British electorate with contempt and treat us like fools.

So will he delay the referendum indefinitely until his renegotiation is ratified into a treaty by all other member states?

Or will we have a referendum on a renegotiated position which could still be vetoed by these other states? In which case the ONLY safe vote would be for “OUT”.

Or IF his negotiation fails entirely? What then? Will he support withdrawal? Or is all this a big cynical trap to keep us all IN a Federal EU? Claiming that after we vote in, and after our renegotiated position is then vetoed by another member state, that we will be stuck in, with EUrophiles claiming that we voted to stay in, so we are going to stay in, no matter what!

We need the answers to those serious and pertinent questions before the next election.

It's all smoke and mirrors. Renegotiation my a*se. 

Oh look, there's a flying pig!

Vote UKIP 

 

[OOMV6]

If the German electorate were given a refeendum,that could happen.They must be sick and tired of spending squillions of euros to try to revive dead economies.

Yes, many are.

[cem_devecioglu]

 
 
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite
 
but I really doubt this referandum will be done..

[albitz]

 
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite
  but I really doubt this referandum will be done..

Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue.

[cem_devecioglu]

 
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite
  but I really doubt this referandum will be done..

Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue.

worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..

[cem_devecioglu]

 
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite
  but I really doubt this referandum will be done..

Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue.

worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..

but I can bet , some powers will try every way to stop this referandum.. and likely be successful..

[albitz]

Yep.

[Rods2]

 
I think if there will be a referandum the answer is definite
  but I really doubt this referandum will be done..

Tbh,Im not so sure.The opinion polls tell us that the British electorate are ready to put Labour back in power,two years after they left the economy in almost total ruination.Therefore,most of them aint got a bleedin clue.

worst is uncertainty, in case you leave you will know where you are going..

but I can bet , some powers will try every way to stop this referandum.. and likely be successful..

David Camoron dies and is at the pearly gates. St Peter says to him, you've done one or two good things, but they are cancelled out by quite a lot of bad things. St Peter said as I'm undecided where you will go, I will let you spend a day in Heaven and a day in Hell and you can decide.

On his day in Heaven it was all calm and enjoyable flitting from cloud to cloud, but he didn't really know anybody so it was an enjoyable day but nothing special.

The next day the devil meets him at the door and escorts him to where all his fellow politicians reside, they go off and have a game of golf, come back and have a feast with plenty of fine wines and talk about the old times on earth. All in all a very agreeable day.

When he sees St Peter the next day he says, this might seem funny, but heaven was okay, but to be frank a bit boring and I didn't really know anybody, but I had a great day in Hell with all my old political friends, so I actually think I would be happier in Hell.

St Peter said it is your choice as he escorted him down to Hell, opened the gate and kicked him through. Through his screams of pain from the fire and brimstone, David Cameron shouted to the Devil, what has happened, it wasn't like this yesterday. The Devil replied: Yesterday I was campaigning for your vote, today I've got it. 

[cleggy]

The last time I heard that joke it was the IBM and ICL versions of heaven and hell, so you can tell how old it is

Voting is 3 for IN 35 for OUT.   So VOTE UKIP it is the only way we'll ever get a say.

[Terbs]

Just heard a great comment on 'Lewis'.....Student was told by Lewis....'You are telling lies'.....girl replies..'Politicians are lying all the time but you don't go chasing after them' ...how true.

My goodness, just think how full the jails would be if all the lying politicians were prosecuted for it and jailed.

Oh Heaven

Cameron is not daft... he knows how to brainwash the gullible. Millibands speech showed just how much he regards your opinion....not one iota At the end of the day, its a select club of 600 odd MP's, playing their own game, with 70 million powerless onlookers.