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[Shackeng]

Reading the PPrune blogs, it is clearly a serious issue, as it appears that the design is such that the doors can appear to be closed and locked even when not properly latched ( shades of the THY DC10 cargo door accident). It seems only a matter of time before an A/C is lost because of this.

[05omegav6]

Why has it only just become an issue then, after 25years of service

Surely there are at least three latches on each of the four cowlings it has been 7 years since I was last near one, but when you close the cowling, you stow the stays, then lower the panel on to its guides then latch it. Even if you try and close them on the piss you might get one catch done up, but you'd struggle to do it, and would therefore know it was wrong. Surely

The DC10 problem was a design flaw in the latch mechanism which allow undertrained loaders to force it shut without actually latching it then as soon as the aircraft is pressurized the hold doors blow open, taking the floor with it. Quite a crap design all round

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Reading the PPrune blogs, it is clearly a serious issue, as it appears that the design is such that the doors can appear to be closed and locked even when not properly latched ( shades of the THY DC10 cargo door accident). It seems only a matter of time before an A/C is lost because of this.

I remember that well, and the distant "boom" over the Channel whilst walking along Hastings beach that Sunday afternoon, after which we learnt about the disaster.

I also remember my amazement when only a few months later my ex and I visited a business colleague who lived close to the Heathrow runways, and we watched a DC9 readying for take-off, and a pilot came down the rear walkway that had dropped down, and literally kicked shut with his boots a large lower panel. Afterwards I awaited the report that aircraft had also crashed, but thank God nothing happened. 

[tigers_gonads]

 It would seem that the push back crew not only have to do a final walk round check, they have to verbally inform the crew that all doors and panels are secure prior to the start of the push back.
 As the AAIB have pictures of the aircraft on pushback that show that the cowls were un latched and it was daylight, then those responsible should be banned from ever working on aircraft again imo 

[05omegav6]

It would seem that the push back crew not only have to do a final walk round check, they have to verbally inform the crew that all doors and panels are secure prior to the start of the push back.
 As the AAIB have pictures of the aircraft on pushback that show that the cowls were un latched and it was daylight, then those responsible should be banned from ever working on aircraft again imo 

Indeed.

[Shackeng]

While, on the face of it, there appears to be a prima facie case of negligence against either ground crew, flight crew, or both, if I have learnt anything in my 45 years in aviation, it is, to wait for the full report on the incident before apportioning blame. I well remember circumstances with which I have been involved that could have resulted in serious accident or injury, which after study of all related facts shed a very different light than that which appears obvious, so, let's wait and see.

[tigers_gonads]

Can't talk for civvy aviation Shack BUT in my past life, SOME people do tend too get hung out to dry while OTHER people tend to get away with a slapped wrist or scot free     

Normally depends on "engender's" at the time 

[Vamps]

Can't talk for civvy aviation Shack BUT in my past life, SOME people do tend too get hung out to dry while OTHER people tend to get away with a slapped wrist or scot free     

Normally depends on "engender's" at the time 

I think that could be said of any situation where a decision carries a risk to health or welfare, more than a poor decision on office furnishings, if you get my drift........ 

[Shackeng]

Can't talk for civvy aviation Shack BUT in my past life, SOME people do tend too get hung out to dry while OTHER people tend to get away with a slapped wrist or scot free     

Normally depends on "engender's" at the time 

Well my experience is split evenly between military and commercial aviation, but I was not referring to any particular area, rather that things are not always as they seem, and it is necessary to discover all the circumstances obtaining at the time of an incident, in order to establish exactly why something happened.

[Kevin Wood]

Why has it only just become an issue then, after 25years of service

Well, as Shackeng says, pure idle speculation until the true (as opposed to Daily Fail) facts are known, but I can imagine one thing that might have changed in those 25 years, with the arrival of budget airlines, is the pressure to get more flights away with less staff on the ground. I guess it's not hard to speculate where that might lead... 

If there's an opportunity to make the aircraft inherently safer, then it's a good thing to do, of course, but any aircraft modification, however small, will be expensive just to prepare the vast pile of paperwork required to enable the job to be done before an engineer even lays his hands on the machine itself.

I speak with experience only of the world of gliding, where it's bad enough, despite the aircraft being about the most simple device that can take to the air.

Hence, aircraft types generally remain unmodified unless there's a great deal of pressure for corrective action, and generations of pilots speak about the day they were lucky to walk away after succumbing to their "gotchas" in the bars of airfields worldwide.

[tigers_gonads]

I'll also add this to Kevin's post if I may ...............

Over the last 20 years or so, not only has the "blame culture" developed but the general attitude of people has changed.
Now days, people are more likely to say f**k it, it will be picked up by somebody else OR oops, I breaked up so how can I get out of this / pass the blame on to others 

Hence my comment about engenders 

In my past life, yes we worked under pressure BUT we also covered each others arses and more importantly, we got the job done, safely 
Again, no aircraft left my Pan / HAS until WE (the see off team) was happy 
No matter how much the growbags in the cockpit blubbed 

In fact, I had the dubious honour of closing the HAS doors on some little shit  pilot officer who insisted he was going to take a aircraft when I said no 

[05omegav6]

Everyone given a Ramp pass has a responsibility to report anything that might seem amiss, however trivial

The Aviation industry is, or should be, one of open reporting. Sure someone might get a wrist slapping, but preventing an incident, however minor, has to come first

[tigers_gonads]

Everyone given a Ramp pass has a responsibility to report anything that might seem amiss, however trivial

The Aviation industry is, or should be, one of open reporting. Sure someone might get a wrist slapping, but preventing an incident, however minor, has to come first

Yup, that's the way it should be 

[Rods2]

We saw the result over the Atlantic on the known freezing ASI pitot tube problem and the lack of urgency on replacing them for a modified version which eliminated this. Lets hope we do not have a repeat of this scenario where the engine cowling doors are left unlatched. Although it is a small percentage compared with the number of flights, 33 similar incidents seems to me to be very high for a repetitive and potentially serious problem where no action has been taken to improve safety. 

[05omegav6]

I suspect the issue lies with the person closing the cowlings rather than the cowlings themselves hence a limit to the reaction, politics not withstanding.

33 similar incidents over 25 years and probably well over 6 million flying hours to put it into perspective