Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[chrisgixer]

Apart from just then ^^^ 

yes, Red bull had a shoot out, red bull f1, Ausy touring car, moto gp bike. The bike was first to turn one by some distance. But the touring car kept pase over the lap with the bike. But 3 laps later the f1 car lapped both the other two, crossing the line almost exactly the same time but a lap ahead.

[chrisgixer]

Given the poor design of the human body and its lack of ability to withstand impacts much above 10mph without significant damage, surely the item with a protective shell demonstrates a true engineering evolution where as the alternative two wheel setup shows nothing more than a poor lazy engineering approach.

Utterly biased Fuse18. Utterly biased.

Given the cost v performance the bike is way more economical than the vulgar over indulgent Nancy boy car drivers hiding in their padded cell. With very similar performance aero aside.

[chrisgixer]

but then is it fair to compare a car with massive aero performance to a bike that has none whatsoever? I think not.

Of course it is, one approach compromises on weight in order to utilise the advantages of aerodynamics, the other compromises on aero to take advantage of weight gains.

If taking the same arguement you could state 'is it fair to compare a bike with massive weight advantages against a car which has none whatsoever? I think not'

Engineering is about trade offs to find sweet spots in design 

Rubbish. Its like putting I winged keel catarmaran against a single hull. You can't just take that argument based on your own bias

[Phil]

Rubbish. Its like putting I winged keel catarmaran against a single hull. You can't just take that argument based on your own bias

Whats a winged keel catarmaran? If you did manage to bolt a winged keel to one then i would take the mono hull any day of the week!

By its design a cat does not need a keel. If however you mean a curved dagger board that creates a foiling cat then you are back to your arguement over money and size.

I would not put money on a 30ft day boat beating an AC72, but I would put money on a foiling moth beating a Prout 72ft cat!

Conversly I would much rather be in Volvo 70 doing 35+knts in the Southern Ocean than in any of the AC or Extreme 40 boats!

A cat can be faster than a monohull due to apparent and true wind issues which the bloke on the drawing board can design around

Also why Adrian Newey is looking to move into yacht design apparently

He who has the most money (Larry Ellison) finds the advantage! Exactly how the F1 car beats the bike.

And the fastest thing on water powered by the wind @65+ knts is the Vestas Sailrocket, technically a trimaran and nothing like the average punter sails!

[chrisgixer]

Rubbish. Its like putting I winged keel catarmaran against a single hull. You can't just take that argument based on your own bias

Whats a winged keel catarmaran? If you did manage to bolt a winged keel to one then i would take the mono hull any day of the week!

By its design a cat does not need a keel. If however you mean a curved dagger board that creates a foiling cat then you are back to your arguement over money and size.

I would not put money on a 30ft day boat beating an AC72, but I would put money on a foiling moth beating a Prout 72ft cat!

Conversly I would much rather be in Volvo 70 doing 35+knts in the Southern Ocean than in any of the AC or Extreme 40 boats!

A cat can be faster than a monohull due to apparent and true wind issues which the bloke on the drawing board can design around

Also why Adrian Newey is looking to move into yacht design apparently

He who has the most money (Larry Ellison) finds the advantage! Exactly how the F1 car beats the bike.

And the fastest thing on water powered by the wind @65+ knts is the Vestas Sailrocket, technically a trimaran and nothing like the average punter sails!

Ok sailor. I might not have the terminology right, but the americas cup boats have right angled keels. Areofoils. Are they?

Clearly I'm no sailor

[05omegav6]

Close, landlubber...

Work on the same principles as wings, but because water is a much denser liquid than air, the designs are a bit more extreme

[chrisgixer]

Oi! Just googled that sailrocket thing. There's no describing that, other than a right angle.

[05omegav6]

That's not a sailing boat, it's a windpowered hydrofoil

[Phil]

Ok sailor. I might not have the terminology right, but the americas cup boats have right angled keels. Areofoils. Are they?

Clearly I'm no sailor

Curved dagger boards.

A cat is naturally faster when 'flying a hull' -only one hull in water = less drag and more speed but stability in tacks and gybes etc - so the dagger boards are designed with a curve and a 'right angle' chunk on the bottom, the angle of this on the AC72s is critical to the point where it starts flying a hull the curve to the board makes this bottom bit more of a V and creats the hydro foil effect. This is then adjusted to optimum angle to keep the boat flying. so you go from a 70ft wide 72ft long 7t 'brick' foiling on a surface area of a couple of m2 (including the rudder). The other thing with the dagger board is the windward one can be lifted so when its flying a hull the board is out of the water and not creating drag and by drag I dont mean a bloke in a dress.

Then theres the winged sail, but that is a whole different can of carrots


The ACs and the flying Phantom2 do it differnet to the Moth and how the Cherub is doing it because of the natural way a cat sails. Mono huls have more of a 'T' foil with wand adjustment.

There is a massive tri that has the offshore speed record called l'Hydroptere that does it another way.

End of the day its the drawing board and money that make the fast things faster!!

 

[05omegav6]

Going by Top Gears efforts, a car (or pick up) will beat a bike hands down on water, but neither will do 65 knots