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[TheBoy]

If you can, Webby, I'd remove them beforehand, free them off (with heat  ), dismantle, grease up the threads, reassemble and refit is close to original length as before, then ASAP after get it on the geo machine...

[Webby the Bear]

If you can, Webby, I'd remove them beforehand, free them off (with heat  ), dismantle, grease up the threads, reassemble and refit is close to original length as before, then ASAP after get it on the geo machine...

sounds like a better plan TB, cheers 

[wheels-inmotion]

Right, not ive had a coffee and had a look at the data vs WIM target data it appears my O/S front is out by 1 minute (0o 10' +/-5') but a said...not too worried as ill do the WB bushes and then re-check and adjust if necessary 

Perhaps WIM could double check the actual figures from the pic against their target data and see if ive missed anything??

also wheres the castor data 

NSF camber is fine but the OSF is still to negative "sorry"..... The camber is hard to adjust because the car needs to be raised and the machine needs to dismiss the suspensions droop from the live readings. Well most machines struggle to be 100% accurate with raised live data so sometimes it might take two or three attempts to hit the right target. Unfortunately the human might get a little complacent about jacking the car up three times and might just call it a day at the numbers you display?

Getting technical now....
Most shops don't measure the castor even if it is adjustable, and even more don't measure it if it's not adjustable..... So what you might think?

Cars chassis are not built at right-angles, each pick-up-point is either lateral, longitudinal or perpendicular. This means a move, let's say camber in this case will effect another plane albeit X, Y or Z. In the case for the Omega a reduced camber will act on the steering arm towing the wheel in. When this is corrected the toe will act against the castor ( fore/ aft position ) of the wheel. A deficit between the front castor will generate directional instability ( pull ) now it's get difficult to explain.....

The castor position controls how much the front cambers migrate during a turn. First player during yaw is the Ackerman angle. This angle generates a disparity between the front wheels radii since each wheel needs a different radii path. The Ackerman pick-up-point migrates the / \ camber to \  \ during a left turn in this example. The rate of migration depends on the castor position. To low a castor then the outer wheel is forced to roll-over due to the level of yaw, to much the inner wheel will roll -over.

Reads like a bit of a dark art, it's not. The same laws apply to all cars, it's just a shame tyre shops don't understand this!

Just to reiterate despite what's been said and what you might read in the manuals the Omega castor angle is adjustable.   

[Webby the Bear]

Right, not ive had a coffee and had a look at the data vs WIM target data it appears my O/S front is out by 1 minute (0o 10' +/-5') but a said...not too worried as ill do the WB bushes and then re-check and adjust if necessary 

Perhaps WIM could double check the actual figures from the pic against their target data and see if ive missed anything??

also wheres the castor data 

NSF camber is fine but the OSF is still to negative "sorry"..... The camber is hard to adjust because the car needs to be raised and the machine needs to dismiss the suspensions droop from the live readings. Well most machines struggle to be 100% accurate with raised live data so sometimes it might take two or three attempts to hit the right target. Unfortunately the human might get a little complacent about jacking the car up three times and might just call it a day at the numbers you display?

Getting technical now....
Most shops don't measure the castor even if it is adjustable, and even more don't measure it if it's not adjustable..... So what you might think?

Cars chassis are not built at right-angles, each pick-up-point is either lateral, longitudinal or perpendicular. This means a move, let's say camber in this case will effect another plane albeit X, Y or Z. In the case for the Omega a reduced camber will act on the steering arm towing the wheel in. When this is corrected the toe will act against the castor ( fore/ aft position ) of the wheel. A deficit between the front castor will generate directional instability ( pull ) now it's get difficult to explain.....

The castor position controls how much the front cambers migrate during a turn. First player during yaw is the Ackerman angle. This angle generates a disparity between the front wheels radii since each wheel needs a different radii path. The Ackerman pick-up-point migrates the / \ camber to \  \ during a left turn in this example. The rate of migration depends on the castor position. To low a castor then the outer wheel is forced to roll-over due to the level of yaw, to much the inner wheel will roll -over.

Reads like a bit of a dark art, it's not. The same laws apply to all cars, it's just a shame tyre shops don't understand this!

Just to reiterate despite what's been said and what you might read in the manuals the Omega castor angle is adjustable.

Thanks very much for the info. 

Re the camber being out.... I have the spec on my sheet as.... Front camber -1º 10'  +/- 0º 45'

My O/S/F is at -1º 35'......only 25' more than the spec.

Can you let me know where that's wrong?

Cheers.

[05omegav6]

O/S/F is at -1º 35'......only 25' more than the spec.

Not much ambiguity there Webby

[Webby the Bear]

I work out that with the +/- being 45' and the desired being -1o 10'...........the maximum allowed is -1o 55'.

and my -1o 35' is within this tolerance.

as said apologies if ive got this wrong but...

[05omegav6]

I work out that with the +/- being 45' and the desired being -1o 10'...........the maximum allowed is -1o 55'.

and my -1o 35' is within this tolerance.

as said apologies if ive got this wrong but...

Finally had chance to reply

Simply in the green is fine if you don't mind which direction your wheels actually point in

[Webby the Bear]

I work out that with the +/- being 45' and the desired being -1o 10'...........the maximum allowed is -1o 55'.

and my -1o 35' is within this tolerance.

as said apologies if ive got this wrong but...

Finally had chance to reply

Simply in the green is fine if you don't mind which direction your wheels actually point in

thanks taxi

perhaps the tolerances should be less then???

[wheels-inmotion]

Right, not ive had a coffee and had a look at the data vs WIM target data it appears my O/S front is out by 1 minute (0o 10' +/-5') but a said...not too worried as ill do the WB bushes and then re-check and adjust if necessary 

Perhaps WIM could double check the actual figures from the pic against their target data and see if ive missed anything??

also wheres the castor data 

NSF camber is fine but the OSF is still to negative "sorry"..... The camber is hard to adjust because the car needs to be raised and the machine needs to dismiss the suspensions droop from the live readings. Well most machines struggle to be 100% accurate with raised live data so sometimes it might take two or three attempts to hit the right target. Unfortunately the human might get a little complacent about jacking the car up three times and might just call it a day at the numbers you display?

Getting technical now....
Most shops don't measure the castor even if it is adjustable, and even more don't measure it if it's not adjustable..... So what you might think?

Cars chassis are not built at right-angles, each pick-up-point is either lateral, longitudinal or perpendicular. This means a move, let's say camber in this case will effect another plane albeit X, Y or Z. In the case for the Omega a reduced camber will act on the steering arm towing the wheel in. When this is corrected the toe will act against the castor ( fore/ aft position ) of the wheel. A deficit between the front castor will generate directional instability ( pull ) now it's get difficult to explain.....

The castor position controls how much the front cambers migrate during a turn. First player during yaw is the Ackerman angle. This angle generates a disparity between the front wheels radii since each wheel needs a different radii path. The Ackerman pick-up-point migrates the / \ camber to \  \ during a left turn in this example. The rate of migration depends on the castor position. To low a castor then the outer wheel is forced to roll-over due to the level of yaw, to much the inner wheel will roll -over.

Reads like a bit of a dark art, it's not. The same laws apply to all cars, it's just a shame tyre shops don't understand this!

Just to reiterate despite what's been said and what you might read in the manuals the Omega castor angle is adjustable.

Thanks very much for the info. 

Re the camber being out.... I have the spec on my sheet as.... Front camber -1º 10'  +/- 0º 45'

My O/S/F is at -1º 35'......only 25' more than the spec.

Can you let me know where that's wrong?

Cheers.

Tolerances is where things go very wrong within the industry and understanding!

If the angle is adjustable and there's a target of -1 degree 10' in this camber case then the tolerance is beside the point. The +- 40' is the bump/ droop range experienced by the dynamic chassis. If the front camber was allowed to be set at -1 degree 55' static then on bump the camber would exceed it's tolerance.

On a car where the angle is not adjustable the tolerance becomes a permitted barrier before the need to look for bent components, nothing more.

I train the trainers for some of the biggest fast-fit company's in the EU and their key instructors and i despair...... Really despair sometimes!!... Most operators don't know what each angle represents nor do the watch the target datum? They watch the colour on the screen and when it's green seemingly it's job done..... There's that tolerance again!

[Webby the Bear]

Right, not ive had a coffee and had a look at the data vs WIM target data it appears my O/S front is out by 1 minute (0o 10' +/-5') but a said...not too worried as ill do the WB bushes and then re-check and adjust if necessary 

Perhaps WIM could double check the actual figures from the pic against their target data and see if ive missed anything??

also wheres the castor data 

NSF camber is fine but the OSF is still to negative "sorry"..... The camber is hard to adjust because the car needs to be raised and the machine needs to dismiss the suspensions droop from the live readings. Well most machines struggle to be 100% accurate with raised live data so sometimes it might take two or three attempts to hit the right target. Unfortunately the human might get a little complacent about jacking the car up three times and might just call it a day at the numbers you display?

Getting technical now....
Most shops don't measure the castor even if it is adjustable, and even more don't measure it if it's not adjustable..... So what you might think?

Cars chassis are not built at right-angles, each pick-up-point is either lateral, longitudinal or perpendicular. This means a move, let's say camber in this case will effect another plane albeit X, Y or Z. In the case for the Omega a reduced camber will act on the steering arm towing the wheel in. When this is corrected the toe will act against the castor ( fore/ aft position ) of the wheel. A deficit between the front castor will generate directional instability ( pull ) now it's get difficult to explain.....

The castor position controls how much the front cambers migrate during a turn. First player during yaw is the Ackerman angle. This angle generates a disparity between the front wheels radii since each wheel needs a different radii path. The Ackerman pick-up-point migrates the / \ camber to \  \ during a left turn in this example. The rate of migration depends on the castor position. To low a castor then the outer wheel is forced to roll-over due to the level of yaw, to much the inner wheel will roll -over.

Reads like a bit of a dark art, it's not. The same laws apply to all cars, it's just a shame tyre shops don't understand this!

Just to reiterate despite what's been said and what you might read in the manuals the Omega castor angle is adjustable.

Thanks very much for the info. 

Re the camber being out.... I have the spec on my sheet as.... Front camber -1º 10'  +/- 0º 45'

My O/S/F is at -1º 35'......only 25' more than the spec.

Can you let me know where that's wrong?

Cheers.

Tolerances is where things go very wrong within the industry and understanding!

If the angle is adjustable and there's a target of -1 degree 10' in this camber case then the tolerance is beside the point. The +- 40' is the bump/ droop range experienced by the dynamic chassis. If the front camber was allowed to be set at -1 degree 55' static then on bump the camber would exceed it's tolerance.

On a car where the angle is not adjustable the tolerance becomes a permitted barrier before the need to look for bent components, nothing more.

I train the trainers for some of the biggest fast-fit company's in the EU and their key instructors and i despair...... Really despair sometimes!!... Most operators don't know what each angle represents nor do the watch the target datum? They watch the colour on the screen and when it's green seemingly it's job done..... There's that tolerance again!

That's a perfect explanation...thanks mate!

I just couldn't get my head around that.

to be honest its all irrelevant what they are at the moment cos as soon as my wishbones are fitted with new bushes im bringing it to you for alignment! 

[Gaffers]

Fancy cutting your teeth on a 97 XJR Webby?

About to finish replacing shocks springs and bushes all round.  What a job that was!!

Their not very adjustable between 93-97

shhhhhhhh........ He is not to know that. .....

[Webby the Bear]

Fancy cutting your teeth on a 97 XJR Webby?

About to finish replacing shocks springs and bushes all round.  What a job that was!!

Their not very adjustable between 93-97

shhhhhhhh........ He is not to know that. .....

so youd let me try guffy...knowing theyre non adjustable! 

cheers mate 

[05omegav6]

  practice, practice, practice...

[Webby the Bear]

practice, practice, practice...

 

[tidla]

Fancy cutting your teeth on a 97 XJR Webby?

About to finish replacing shocks springs and bushes all round.  What a job that was!!

Their not very adjustable between 93-97

Interesting that the 97 on are adjustable with different values given between n/s and o/s. To match the road camber?