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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Last week I took a week's holiday in one of my favourite parts of Britain, The Lake District.

So on Friday 1st of August I drove from Ashford in Kent to Flookburgh in Cumbria. The journey took from 0915 to 2015 with four stops at services; 11 hours over 550+ miles!!  When I returned on Friday 8th, it took 9 hours with 2 stops at services.

Why so long?  Because there was simply too many motor vehicles fighting for too little road space on especially the M25, M40, M42, and M6 (the worst!). I used the M6 Toll coming back down that speeded things up a bit, but basically it was two journeys that consisted of continual stop start motoring, with the M6 in particular just a car park in so many places.

I have 1 million miles of driving experience, the majority accumulated on nationwide business from 1973 to 1996. I used many motorways, including all the major motorways, frequently. Up to 2003 I was still travelling around on business for another company, but never, never, did I find in all those years so many major hold ups on our major motorways. Not due to road works or accidents, but purely too many vehicles bunching up and causing complete stops for considerable lengths of road. On the radio whilst driving back I kept on hearing about severe tailbacks and hold-ups on the M4, M5, M11, and M25,in addition to what I was experiencing. One report in particular mentioned "solid stationery traffic" from Bristol to past Weston-super-mare on the M5, a road I made a considerable percentage of my million miles business driving so know it all too well.  However, although considerable hold-ups were common in the 1990s from Almondsbury to Weston on this road on holiday get away days, especially Saturday's, it was never that bad.

No, I have now the distinct impression that my prediction of the end of motor vehicle mass use is within 50 years is out; it will be within the next 15-20 years. If I project the great increase I have seen in motor car use in the last 20 years forward, coupled with what is actually happening on our roads now, with motor ways already incapable of handling the current level of traffic, it is obvious the "Great Motor Age" is coming to an end.  The new age of The Train, high speed of course, coupled with super integrated local bus services based on rail link hubs, is now the way to go, with air transport continuing to provide a significant alternative.

 

[Rog]

I've had a similar view for some time.

There was a time when I could predict how long a journey would take. This is now impossible. I don't think it is caused by any one factor, but a combination of many.

Increase of adult population = more cars
Elf & Safe T = Long delays caused by relatively minor accidents/incidents
Compensation culture = Long delays caused by excessive caution by authorities

I also think that it is caused the hotel industry deliberately clogging our roads so that if you really REALLY need to be somewhere the next morning, you go the night before and stay in a hotel 

I now routinely travel between London and West Wales. Whenever possible I take the train, cheaper, quicker, and even allowing for delays, more reliable. Yes it's cheaper, The Severn Crossing now costs £6.40, and my 3.2 is not exactly frugal on fuel ! My trip this weekend £64 return by train, by car it would be about that each way.

[Varche]

I went back to Scarborough recently (Spring) and was shocked at the volumes of cars queuing on the dual carriageways on their way to the coast as I went back to Leeds airport. In my youth the bottlenecks were Malton, Tadcaster and York but they now have bypasses. It was a relief to get back to the quiet Spanish roads.

The golden age of motoring was ten or twenty years ago. perhaps more. We just didn't know it.

The way forward is of course driverless cars with speed, distance apart etc controlled by computer and not by humans. There would be no butterfly effect, tailgating would be the norm! and no choice. The car of today will be phased out OR cost a fortune per mile to use.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I've had a similar view for some time.

There was a time when I could predict how long a journey would take. This is now impossible. I don't think it is caused by any one factor, but a combination of many.

Increase of adult population = more cars
Elf & Safe T = Long delays caused by relatively minor accidents/incidents
Compensation culture = Long delays caused by excessive caution by authorities

I also think that it is caused the hotel industry deliberately clogging our roads so that if you really REALLY need to be somewhere the next morning, you go the night before and stay in a hotel 

I now routinely travel between London and West Wales. Whenever possible I take the train, cheaper, quicker, and even allowing for delays, more reliable. Yes it's cheaper, The Severn Crossing now costs £6.40, and my 3.2 is not exactly frugal on fuel ! My trip this weekend £64 return by train, by car it would be about that each way.

All agreed Rog.  Of course the cost of train travel is easily justified versus the cost of a single person using a 3.2 Omega, but when there is a family involved the situation becomes very different. To resolve that issue family rail/bus tickets should be made a lot cheaper to encourage them to leave the car at home.  But then my point about super integrated public transport really comes into focus, with an easier method of suitcase logistics involved.

[Sir Tigger KC]

The new age of The Train, high speed of course, coupled with super integrated local bus services based on rail link hubs, is now the way to go, with air transport continuing to provide a significant alternative.

 

I doubt that there will ever be any sort of cohesive transport policy such as you describe Lizzie, as usual in this country we'll just muddle through.... 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I went back to Scarborough recently (Spring) and was shocked at the volumes of cars queuing on the dual carriageways on their way to the coast as I went back to Leeds airport. In my youth the bottlenecks were Malton, Tadcaster and York but they now have bypasses. It was a relief to get back to the quiet Spanish roads.

The golden age of motoring was ten or twenty years ago. perhaps more. We just didn't know it.

The way forward is of course driverless cars with speed, distance apart etc controlled by computer and not by humans. There would be no butterfly effect, tailgating would be the norm! and no choice. The car of today will be phased out OR cost a fortune per mile to use.

All agreed Varche, but the "driverless" cars are envisaged to be all electric. At the services I saw ONE bay reserved for recharging.  How does that work if 20/30/ whatever cars need recharging (over how many hours / 6, 8 ??) and how do these cars cope with a distance of travel over 550 miles?  How many re-charges v. hours would that take?  The answers will no doubt come with new technology and revised mind-sets, but when?  Will it be in time?

Let's face it we need answers and solutions now.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The new age of The Train, high speed of course, coupled with super integrated local bus services based on rail link hubs, is now the way to go, with air transport continuing to provide a significant alternative.

 

I doubt that there will ever be any sort of cohesive transport policy such as you describe Lizzie, as usual in this country we'll just muddle through....

I fear that could indeed be the case!

[Rog]

I've had a similar view for some time.

There was a time when I could predict how long a journey would take. This is now impossible. I don't think it is caused by any one factor, but a combination of many.

Increase of adult population = more cars
Elf & Safe T = Long delays caused by relatively minor accidents/incidents
Compensation culture = Long delays caused by excessive caution by authorities

I also think that it is caused the hotel industry deliberately clogging our roads so that if you really REALLY need to be somewhere the next morning, you go the night before and stay in a hotel 

I now routinely travel between London and West Wales. Whenever possible I take the train, cheaper, quicker, and even allowing for delays, more reliable. Yes it's cheaper, The Severn Crossing now costs £6.40, and my 3.2 is not exactly frugal on fuel ! My trip this weekend £64 return by train, by car it would be about that each way.

All agreed Rog.  Of course the cost of train travel is easily justified versus the cost of a single person using a 3.2 Omega, but when there is a family involved the situation becomes very different. To resolve that issue family rail/bus tickets should be made a lot cheaper to encourage them to leave the car at home.  But then my point about super integrated public transport really comes into focus, with an easier method of suitcase logistics involved.

Agreed. If SWMBO is with me we almost always drive. SWMBO hates that as she has to listen to my music in the car 

[Webby the Bear]

I'm going to disagree! 

The motorways are clogged and they are a pain in the butt. Me and 2 buddies went to Cardiff the other day and due to the weather and subsequent accidents it took us 5 hours. 3 hours on the way back on the Sunday.

However I checked for trains. £60-ish each with 2 changes (at Birmingham New Street and another I cant remember). So for just 3 of us the cost would have been £180. Plus the ball-ache of changes.

Petrol in his diesel Megane ( ) cost £50. And arguably was more convenient.

Now that's just one example.

So say everybody decided to use the trains or planes. That would then free up the roads for people who have only been using their cars for work...........

just my opinion. 

[Taxi_Driver]

I went to Luton Airport this Friday gone.....2hrs there (not bad really), its about 100miles, but 3.5hrs to get back 

The long return trip was all to do with heavy traffic......

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I'm going to disagree! 

The motorways are clogged and they are a pain in the butt. Me and 2 buddies went to Cardiff the other day and due to the weather and subsequent accidents it took us 5 hours. 3 hours on the way back on the Sunday.

However I checked for trains. £60-ish each with 2 changes (at Birmingham New Street and another I cant remember). So for just 3 of us the cost would have been £180. Plus the ball-ache of changes.

Petrol in his diesel Megane ( ) cost £50. And arguably was more convenient.

Now that's just one example.

So say everybody decided to use the trains or planes. That would then free up the roads for people who have only been using their cars for work...........

just my opinion. 

That is of course one answer Webby, but I personally think one outstanding issue is still the amount of freight still being transported by road.
Some of it is unavoidable as it is for local deliveries, but so much more of the long distance freight should go by rail, high speed preferably, as in the case of the freight coming through the Chunnel on container trains.  I see thousands of lorries coming through Kent from foreign ferry ports, and via the Chunnel shuttle trains, carrying freight destined for all parts of Britain that should be going by train. Take those lorries off our roads and it would free up a considerable amount of road space.

[Webby the Bear]

I'm going to disagree! 

The motorways are clogged and they are a pain in the butt. Me and 2 buddies went to Cardiff the other day and due to the weather and subsequent accidents it took us 5 hours. 3 hours on the way back on the Sunday.

However I checked for trains. £60-ish each with 2 changes (at Birmingham New Street and another I cant remember). So for just 3 of us the cost would have been £180. Plus the ball-ache of changes.

Petrol in his diesel Megane ( ) cost £50. And arguably was more convenient.

Now that's just one example.

So say everybody decided to use the trains or planes. That would then free up the roads for people who have only been using their cars for work...........

just my opinion. 

That is of course one answer Webby, but I personally think one outstanding issue is still the amount of freight still being transported by road.
Some of it is unavoidable as it is for local deliveries, but so much more of the long distance freight should go by rail, high speed preferably, as in the case of the freight coming through the Chunnel on container trains.  I see thousands of lorries coming through Kent from foreign ferry ports, and via the Chunnel shuttle trains, carrying freight destined for all parts of Britain that should be going by train. Take those lorries off our roads and it would free up a considerable amount of road space.

Definitely! And it would stop them pulling out AT ANY TIME THEY LIKE in to the middle lane 

Where I'm from we have Eddie Stobart just round the corner and I see loads of lorries destined for Eastern Europe. Is it feasible they go by train though due to costs?  I don't know anything about train freight costs but woulda thought it'd be expensive hence all the lorries? 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I'm going to disagree! 

The motorways are clogged and they are a pain in the butt. Me and 2 buddies went to Cardiff the other day and due to the weather and subsequent accidents it took us 5 hours. 3 hours on the way back on the Sunday.

However I checked for trains. £60-ish each with 2 changes (at Birmingham New Street and another I cant remember). So for just 3 of us the cost would have been £180. Plus the ball-ache of changes.

Petrol in his diesel Megane ( ) cost £50. And arguably was more convenient.

Now that's just one example.

So say everybody decided to use the trains or planes. That would then free up the roads for people who have only been using their cars for work...........

just my opinion. 

That is of course one answer Webby, but I personally think one outstanding issue is still the amount of freight still being transported by road.
Some of it is unavoidable as it is for local deliveries, but so much more of the long distance freight should go by rail, high speed preferably, as in the case of the freight coming through the Chunnel on container trains.  I see thousands of lorries coming through Kent from foreign ferry ports, and via the Chunnel shuttle trains, carrying freight destined for all parts of Britain that should be going by train. Take those lorries off our roads and it would free up a considerable amount of road space.

Definitely! And it would stop them pulling out AT ANY TIME THEY LIKE in to the middle lane 

Where I'm from we have Eddie Stobart just round the corner and I see loads of lorries destined for Eastern Europe. Is it feasible they go by train though due to costs?  I don't know anything about train freight costs but woulda thought it'd be expensive hence all the lorries? 

Oh so true Webby!  I have joked with friends that whenever you take a motorway journey of any reasonable length you are guaranteed to see at least one Eddie Stobart lorry!  It was the same during my recent experience; every motorway revealed at least one of their trucks - they have of course some 2,200+ units, with 3,200 trailers!!

They also operate freight trains, so why don't they use those more?  Any answers?  Anyone knows why?

[Seth]

All agreed Rog.  Of course the cost of train travel is easily justified versus the cost of a single person using a 3.2 Omega, but when there is a family involved the situation becomes very different. To resolve that issue family rail/bus tickets should be made a lot cheaper to encourage them to leave the car at home.  But then my point about super integrated public transport really comes into focus, with an easier method of suitcase logistics involved.

Not necessarily (pro rata) the case Lizzie .. a Family Railcard allows up to 4 adults + 4 children truly massive savings.

Rail travel is the way forwards, as currently being demonstrated in these parts:

Improving the Cardiff & Valleys Rail Network

 

An Artist's impression of Cardiff Queen Street station

You will soon see work happening at Cardiff Central and Cardiff Queen Street stations, improving the entrances and the addition of new platforms.

This work will also improve reliability and capacity on the Cardiff and Valleys rail network. The £220 million project is jointly funded by Network Rail and the Welsh Government. This will include;

a new platform at Cardiff Central
a new south-side entrance at Cardiff Central with lifts to the new platform
New platforms and entrance at Cardiff Queen Street station
an additional platform at Barry station
improved infrastructure on the Rhymney Valley line at Caerphilly and Tir-Phil
improved infrastructure at Cogan
line-speed improvements on the City Line
a new platform at Pontypridd

 

An Artist's impression of the new rear entrance for Cardiff Central station

The project, scheduled to be completed by 2015, will ‘future proof’ the railway by increasing capacity for potential future passenger services. It will also provide a more robust and flexible infrastructure in order to maintain and improve train reliability and punctuality.

For free email alerts to keep you up to date and to let you know of any service alterations relating to the project, please visit www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/EngineeringWorksAlerts.

For further information on this project, visit Network Rail's website.

Electrification is also looming for the Valleys network ..

[Nick W]

All agreed Varche, but the "driverless" cars are envisaged to be all electric. At the services I saw ONE bay reserved for recharging. How does that work if 20/30/ whatever cars need recharging (over how many hours / 6, 8 ??) and how do these cars cope with a distance of travel over 550 miles?  How many re-charges v. hours would that take?  The answers will no doubt come with new technology and revised mind-sets, but when?  Will it be in time?

Let's face it we need answers and solutions now.

The charging point at the M20 services has been out of action for about 6 weeks now. I've recovered 3 Leafs to the M2 services for a recharge. Unless the range and charging problems are solved, which is a battery problem and nothing to do with the cars, electric cars are a dead end. Or a dead stop at about 100 miles!