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[Temetsy]

Best Turbo route is to fit a 2.0 turbo engine from an Astra or Calibra Zafira GSi etc.. then tune that up. Let someone else (ie Opel Engine Designers) do all the design, leaving you do simply tweak the chip, lightened flywheels slight boost increase etc..

I'd do all the G-cam route, polish ports etc.. the works... make it the best V6 engine there is in the UK. Then come the new year, take pity and give it to me       

Best way for turboing omega IMO is fittin Saab b204 or b234 pot in, fits straight to the gearbox and T5's are known to give out 600+ hp with stock pistons, conrods etc

[Webby the Bear]

Not sure the 2.5 scares me, Al? lol hence looking for better power

[Webby the Bear]

Ps, i trust that i cant just jam a 3.0l chip in my 2.5 irrespective of if theyre the same or not???

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Whether you can or not, the ECU for the 2.5 is made for the 2.5, and the 3.0 for the 3.0. Sorry, I know that's come across as a really sarcastic response, apologies - what I mean is, the 3.0 has a higher fuel pressure, different displacement, of course, and a longer plenum, designed to smooth out the flat spot caused by the G cams (think I've got that right), no doubt a couple of other differences that I'm missing, too. So although I'm sure the 3.0 chip would work in the 2.5... I don't know as it would be a clean street to more power / smoother driving on its own, any more than fitting a header tank off an MV6 would make the car go faster... if you follow? 

the 3.0 ECU combined with other 3.0 components, I can appreciate, but not sure that just this on its own would do anything. That said I've never done it, so it's all opinion. You're not going to break anything by trying it, though, so if you fancy giving it a go, I'd welcome to result and the experiement.   

[Kevin Wood]

If swapping anything between the 2.5 and 3.0 bear in mind that there are some oddities in the wiring of the TPS between short and long plenum engines that have caught others out in the past. I'm not sure if the differences extend into the ECU and mapping, but it's something to be wary of. I think it's just the throttle body and engine loom that are different, but...

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks guys.

So basically we're saying that swapping chips MAY be an issue.

But a chip from SC for a 2.5 will be designed fr a 2.5 and a chip for 3.o designed for a 3.0.

im just trying to gauge the interchangability if ya gets me

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Noo, its a legitimate question. It's just a tricky one, as anyone that has, will have changed all the other stuff, G cams, plenum, then lot over... I don't think there can be any terrible issues caused by doing it, however, aide from accidentally damaging the ECU / motherboardy-electric-magic-make-car-start stuff inside. But that's always a risk with anything.

I'd say give it a go, unless anyone can actually say you'd damage irreparably something. As far as I can tell it's plug it is, see if it works, no? Or no change? Or slightly worse? Then swap it back. The only thing I would say is try and get some scientific readings before and after. A run on a known bit of road, up to temp, for mpg... test the 30-70mph etc.. that sort of thing. It's too easy to say after having it on a rolling road 'oooh, I think it feels livelier' or 'oh, I did an oil change and it felt smoother'. If there turns out to be an appreciable difference, this alone may become a popular mod.

[Webby the Bear]

Exactly DBG.

Let me re-phrase my question so it makes more sense....

Instead of buying a superchips chip at circa £150-£250... can i buy a cheap 3.0 ECU off 'ere and jam the chip in and have the same ''remap'' effect.

thats what i was trying to say..... just takes me several posts to ask it 

[Diamond Black Geezer]

hahah. No worries.

Ok, as I see it, the superchip and any chip is pushing the engine...if not 'to its limit' then closer to it. I mean you can make a drag race engine to the same bhp as a Bugatti Veyron, but it will only last 1/4 mile before it needs a rebuild, the Veyron is a road car, that's the difference.

I follow your logic totally, let's look at it mathematically (NOT my strongpoint!)

169bhp from 2.5V6, 208bhp from 3.0V6

So 39bhp difference. But the Vectra Supertouring ran with a 2.5 with G cams plus a couple of other tweaky bits but the same 2.5 ECU, at 195bhp

So in theory we can say 26bhp increase just with the 'mechanical' route of cams, plenum, etc..

That leaves 13bhp left unaccounted for... there is 500cc difference between the 2.5 and 3.0. If you designed a 500cc engine with 13bhp you'd have a right to be disappointed 

So to be honest I'd say any power difference is in that extra 500cc's, and not to be found in the ECU. What the 3.0 ECU will do it work well with the long plenum, G Cams and higher fuel pressure of the 3.0 - which when fitted to a 2.5 V6 will 'do the biz'

It's not an exact science, but hope you follow my thinking. I still say, feel free to try it, to see what happens. Any experiment is never a waste even if you prove it doesn't work, it's never wasted.

[Kevin Wood]

Exactly. The physical differences between engines is what makes the biggest difference, namely cams and displacement.

3.0 ECU is a shot in the dark. it might make an improvement, it might make things worse. I wasn't designed for the 2.5 engine in the first place.

Oh, and the fuel pressure on both the 2.5 and 3.0 is 3.0 BAR, by the way. The regulator is the same, as are the injectors.

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks boys.

DBG your explanation makes total sense.

Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?

[Kevin Wood]

Thanks boys.

DBG your explanation makes total sense.

Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?

No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).

The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.

Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.

By far the best modification is a set of 3.0 cams, as has been said.

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks boys.

DBG your explanation makes total sense.

Kev, would you reckon the 3.0 chip would do the same as a superchips chip? or not as the SC chip is designed specifically for the 2.5?

No, the Superchips chip will (hopefully) contain ignition and fuel maps that have been developed for performance rather than the usual mix of emissions, compatibility with all climates and market positioning that the OEM chip was, so that should given you some gains, and those who have tried it confirm this (and that it doesn't seem to impact reliability).The 3.0 chip is a crapshoot. It's actually likely to have pretty much the same maps as the 2.5 IMHO. Timing might have been tweaked a little, the map might extend to higher MAF output (but this is of no consequence to the 2.5 as it hasn't got big enough lungs to reach it). There is heresay that it improves things, in combination with a load of other mods, but no evidence that the same returns wouldn't have been achieved with the 2.5 chip.

Don't expect stellar results from just a chip in any case.

By far the best modification is a set of 3.0 cams, as has been said.

...thus confirming that as you say, the 3.0 chip swap would be a shot in the dark.

Thanks kev.

as mentioned before... not looking or expecting to gain veyron horses..... just an improvement

...now just to see what they want for said chip 

[Webby the Bear]

This brings on a new question....

Can you get second hand superchips off the bay and are they to be trusted? Anyone any experience?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

In theory yes, though you're looking for someone who is breaking an omega with the chip, and is willing to split - or someone who is wanting to return a car to original spec, perhaps before selling. Either, I'd imagine most likely to be found on here, but given the total number of Omegas left, then the total number V6, then of them, who fitted a chip, then, of them, how many are breaking the car/willing to sell the chip.... I think we're into Steinmetz bodykit territory, here! Though if / when you find a chip it is bound to be pretty damn cheap, compared with new, like most OOF prices.

As for trust, well, I'd say as trustworthy as any second hand item you buy, from here, or ebay. There are good people and bad people in the world. Even OOF hasn't been immune, sadly.

I've seen people give away G Cams on here, leather interiors, it's just that week no-one wanted them, but the next week someone's willing to pay £100 a piece. Definitely worth seeing what's out there, pop it in General Chat? or in the Wanted / For Sale section, as a specific request, of course...