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[05omegav6]

Add a hundred tons of aluminium and jet fuel to a confined steel structure and cover it in dust and office debris, then set light to it...

The aluminium melts and gets hot enough to turn steel into a caramel paste. at this point, the top of the building collapses, causing the entire structure to collapse under its own weight.

Two independent, (from the state and each other), engineers concluded that contrary to the official report the aircraft were largely intact rather than shredded when they entered the towers, and allowing for this they concluded that molten aluminium draining down the vertical structure of the building was enough to incinerate the fireproof membrane and allow the heat to soften the steel. The rest as they say, is history.

Goole aluminium recycling plant explosions if you don't believe it...

Unfortunately, the New York Port Authority, the agency responsible for sorting and disposing of the debris, refused to release so much as an ounce of 9/11 debris for them to test their findings. Make of that what you will.

There have been several very informative, independent documentaries dispelling most of the 9/11 bullshit.

The only questions left unanswered are exactly how much was known prior to the event and why was nothing done. Between Michael Moore, various enquiries and independent reports, the afters have been done to death.

As for CIA torturing people, right or wrong they did what they did, and it was known if ignored by everyone... remember the CIA transit stops at Prestwick a few years ago? This is not news.

The only people who have lost out in the whole debacle are the US. Someone in the CIA or NSA wanted the Patriot Act implemented, and allowing 9/11 to happen was the impetus that was needed. 

[chrisgixer]

Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'

Oh Jeez. Now you've done it.

[05omegav6]

Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'

It wasn't a set up per se... read my entire post above as to why not...

Cem is partial to eating a lot of cheese before bed, and living in Turkey, has limited access to impartial, intelligent information.

[chrisgixer]

Although, I did see a programme explaining that dumping water from a sprinkler system on molten aluminium is an exceptionally explosive thing to do. Volatile way beyond anything one might conceive of a chemical reaction, unless you're aware of it if course.


I would add I know nothing of smelting or chemistry in relation to this.

[05omegav6]

Although, I did see a programme explaining that dumping water from a sprinkler system on molten aluminium is an exceptionally explosive thing to do. Volatile way beyond anything one might conceive of a chemical reaction, unless you're aware of it if course.


I would add I know nothing of smelting or chemistry in relation to this.

It was a very clear cut, no 'dangle berries', scientific explanation as to why the official report into the collapse of the World Trade Centre was inaccurate and incomplete. It also dispelled  all the conspiracy nonsense at the same time.

IIRC, the chap whom the documentary was based on, was an ex pat Brit Chemical Engineer or Chemist rather than a builder or architect

It's disappointing that the NYPA were unwilling to release any debris, but I can fully understand why... the Americans are a sentimental bunch when it comes to patriotism. Which itself, makes it such a criminal shame that they had the Patriot Act forced upon then whilst they were blind with grief and rage

[05omegav6]

An example of the dangers of molten aluminium....

http://www.recyclingtoday.com/kunshan-zhongrong-fire-china-aluminum-wheels.aspx

[X30XE]

Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'

www.911truth.org

Ignore the "conspiracy theory" mainstream programming, or in fact anything that makes it onto mainstream media.  This merely strengthens the official account by being so baseless in fact. 

In order to find the truth you have to start from a position of neutrality.  If you go looking to find in favour of a particular outcome, unsurprisingly you'll normally succeed. 

Clues :
- History of steel frame buildings collapsing due to fire previously or since 2001 = zero
- 3 steel frame buildings collapsing in the same day due to "fire" in 1 day in 2001, one of which not even hit by a plane
- Time taken for buildings to "freefall" out of the sky
- If putting a building down onto it's footprint was as simple as starting a fire 2/3 of the way up on one side there'd be no controlled demolition firms...

[05omegav6]

Sorry, but that entire site is all bullshit.

edited for clarity.

[chrisgixer]

Must be true. Says so in the address.

[05omegav6]

Must be true. Says so in the address.

OK, the entire content of that site is bullshit, even if it is a real website

[X30XE]

Sorry, but that entire site is all bullshit.

edited for clarity.

I think i'll take the word of Dr Steven Jones over the eloquent and well reasoned "debate" you have offered there thanks 

www.ae911truth.org

To each their own, as they say.

[05omegav6]

You believe what you want to believe... I didn't name the NIST report, but agree it has been found wanting in both fact and detail. The documentary I alluded to proved beyond all reasonable doubt how the towers collapsed. The findings of the report featured were rejected by the authors of NIST as it highlighted the failings of the NIST report.

The other buildings collapsed as a direct result of the towers collapsing as their foundations simply weren't designed to tolerate the dynamic loads imposed on them as the towers impacted the ground.

The inertia of the towers was immense. And they were only ever going to fall straight down, no lateral force was present during their collapse.

And apart from suggesting that the site you linked to was bullshit, I think my earlier post was pretty lucid and well reasoned

[Gaffers]

Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.

It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.

Ah, so we come down to management being "fit for purpose" again. In very general terms of course. Rarely have I encounteted individuals worthy of, well.....leadership, I suppose, even ignoring situations where the shit really has hit the fan.

I can't imagine the pressure these people encounteted during the events of 911.


But how far to take this moral fibre? Much as I feel he deserved it, how does the report on torture balance with the shooting, or even murder, of OBL? Don't get me wrong, nobody is complaining, but that can't really be justified either, can it? Rush the house, shoot him dead, take the body, identify him. Lob the body over board. Is that legal?

Nail on the head as far as I am concerned...but I have to be careful what I say publically on this...

[chrisgixer]

Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.

It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.

Ah, so we come down to management being "fit for purpose" again. In very general terms of course. Rarely have I encounteted individuals worthy of, well.....leadership, I suppose, even ignoring situations where the shit really has hit the fan.

I can't imagine the pressure these people encounteted during the events of 911.


But how far to take this moral fibre? Much as I feel he deserved it, how does the report on torture balance with the shooting, or even murder, of OBL? Don't get me wrong, nobody is complaining, but that can't really be justified either, can it? Rush the house, shoot him dead, take the body, identify him. Lob the body over board. Is that legal?

Nail on the head as far as I am concerned...but I have to be careful what I say publically on this...

A simplistic view in my post as I can't imagine for one momment that he wouldn't be armed. And iirc it was presented that he was, but how the hell would we know, they could say what they like and we'd be none the wiser.

[X30XE]

You believe what you want to believe... I didn't name the NIST report, but agree it has been found wanting in both fact and detail. The documentary I alluded to proved beyond all reasonable doubt how the towers collapsed. The findings of the report featured were rejected by the authors of NIST as it highlighted the failings of the NIST report.

To put it mildly. 

The other buildings collapsed as a direct result of the towers collapsing as their foundations simply weren't designed to tolerate the dynamic loads imposed on them as the towers impacted the ground.

Sounds implausible. A lot of buildings with lower safety factor designs are still standing.

The inertia of the towers was immense. And they were only ever going to fall straight down, no lateral force was present during their collapse.

So the 2/3rds of the (relatively stone cold and over engineered for safety) structure that supported the wieght of the top 1/3 for the last 40years offered no resistance to the passage of the top falling??  If your head decided to fall now under gravity through your chest and out your arse with no resistance would I be able to explain that away with stating there was no lateral force present I wonder?

And apart from suggesting that the site you linked to was bullshit, I think my earlier post was pretty lucid and well reasoned

Limited oxygen available for combustion (hence large orange/black fireball on impact) means temperatures were never hot enough to melt steel as claimed.  (as evidenced by survivors holding onto the building and peering out after impact).