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[amba]

Yesterday my wife received an offical looking set of paperwork advising her she was being taken to court for non payment of an alleged parking contravention at our local supermarket.

It was accompanied by a form N1 laying out the reasons for the claim that she had overstayed the agreed 2 hour time slot and her details had been recorded on automatic time elapse number plate camera.It went onto to advise that this was classified as trespass and as overstaying the agreed time etc would be a breach of contract etc etc.It was issued by a crowd called Debt Enforcement and Action Ltd and was for £215 being the charge as not paid within there 14 days + legal costs and court fees.The court papers advise that these must be returned within 14 days as failing that the court may pass judgement against her without any defence.

The letter was deliverd by standard postage and not recorded and to the best of our knowledge we can never remember ever receiving any previous paperwork relating to this  so needless to say she is somewhat concerend and is now just considering paying the £215 and calling an end to it.

After reading it very very carfeully I seem to of found a glaring mistake and am wondering if this should now be our defence and should try taking them to the cleaners and employing the services of a solicitor and counterclaiming the costs involved for their legal advise.
Reading through there report of the allegeded offence the date they have entered on the claim form is....01/01/1900... and states the vehicle was seen entering the carpark at 13.58 and leaving at 17.00.

This is obviously a mistake as being New Years Day some 115 years ago the carpark wasnt even there/Henry Ford hadnt even dreamt of building a Ford Fiesta nor had automatic cameras been invented so their error has probably got her off anyway but would the best course of action be as she is concerned that if we use this as our defence they might try and claim again with another date.

Any legal eagles advise warmly welcomed please

[minifreek]

Tell 'em to go opps themselves LOL

Its a private company and doesn't hold any legality for them to charge you anything for parking...

It's basically an invoice and you have no legal obligation to pay it.....


If, however it is a local authority that has sent it, then it has to be paid...

The car park is presumably a private car park and not controlled by a local authority...?


There is something of this very nature going through the courts and through Parliament to stop this illegal activity and intimidation of these unregulated companies as at the moment there is nothing to stop ANY company from opening a car park and charging you whatever they wish for you to park there...

If it hasn't been sent by registered post, then deny receiving it....


I would ask them for photos of the car parked in the parking spot, thy would have to be original photos and not 'enhanced' by a screenshot that has been clearly zoomed in digitally...

Tell them to do one....


Basically - just ignore it....

[Kevin Wood]

Unless it's actually a summons from a court, I would ignore it.

I'm guessing they'll check their paperwork a bit more thoroughly before actually starting expensive proceedings, and realise they haven't got a leg to stand on.

If not, turn up in court with the letter, and explain that you weren't the registered keeper of the vehicle on the date of the "offence" , so you ignored it.

I wouldn't get into correspondence with them, as that will just encourage them to pester you more.

[4x4]

Have a read here
http://justclaim.co.uk/court-forms/N1-claim-form.html

[amba]

Thanks for the advise guys.

As I am sure you appreciate the claim is in SWTSMBO name and anything remotely leagl she goes into meltdown and first reaction is just to pay up.

My stance is as suggested and tell them to get stuffed but my main concern was that...If you do not reply, judgment may be entered against you.

However if it does go against her how ever remote that chance is,surely the date of 01/01/1900 as being the date of the offence would be picked up at court,so my thought is just to let it ride and see if the court pick that up

I suppose if she replies to it they know she is concerned enough to defend and may then realise their date error and try changing it .

[LC0112G]

Ignoring is a very dangerous strategy. The advice to "ignore" private parking tickets is now wrong, and has been for 3 years (Protection of freedoms Act 2012). Plus, if these are genuine court papers, and you don't defend, then the court WILL find in favour of the claimant by default.

I suggest you get over to either the MoneySavingExpert or Pepipoo message boards and ask for help there.   

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=f356a930407e495dd3f7b54584d82951&showforum=60

Cheers
Malcolm

[LC0112G]

Thanks for the advise guys.

As I am sure you appreciate the claim is in SWTSMBO name and anything remotely leagl she goes into meltdown and first reaction is just to pay up.

My stance is as suggested and tell them to get stuffed but my main concern was that...If you do not reply, judgment may be entered against you.

However if it does go against her how ever remote that chance is,surely the date of 01/01/1900 as being the date of the offence would be picked up at court,so my thought is just to let it ride and see if the court pick that up

I suppose if she replies to it they know she is concerned enough to defend and may then realise their date error and try changing it .

The way it works is that they will claim that by parking in the car park she agreed to the terms and conditions that they impose. This agreement forms a legal contract between the driver and the company, and she has not followed the terms of the contract by not paying the agreed fees. So if you pipe up at court saying the dates are wrong, then they will lose. However, they'll just re-issue new papers with the correct dates and come after you again.  They have up to 6 years to sue you.

In the small claims court, you cannot claim 'costs' if you win.

[Marks DTM Calib]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4878261

Says it all

[amba]

Lots of conflicting advise 

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

[Gaffers]

As mentioned in that link they have to prove they were out of pocket for the amount claimed and to my knowledge this has yet to be done in a court despite several attempts, all of which were thrown out.

From an Information Security perspective I am very interested in the outcome of the DVLA being taken to court for providing personal information to this type of company.  They are being accused of breaches of the DPA as well as being an accessory to harassment.

[Kevin Wood]

I think, without knowing exactly what you have received, you will not get the correct advice.

LC0112G's advice to ask on pepipoo or similar is good. I would scan the documents you have received, redact any details that could identify the case, and post there for advice.

Especially given that this is the first you have heard of this matter, there are many, many grounds on which you could appeal, but if it's actually got to the stage that they have applied to court, and it's not just an official-looking threat letter from a private company trying it on, then you might need to look for more qualified legal advice, TBH.

[LC0112G]

Lots of conflicting advise 

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

Do not ignore. This will not go away if you ignore. It's reached the stage where they have filed a claim with the small claims court (form N1 plus court papers). If you don't defend, you will lose. If you lose, you MUST pay or you'll end up with baliffs at the door, and a CCJ on your credit record which will affect you for many years (loans mortgages declined).

However, Debt Enforcement and Action Ltd (DEAL) are a well know bunch of shysters, and you can defeat them with a bit of effort.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5188519&highlight=debt+enforcement+action+ltd

[Gaffers]

Lots of conflicting advise 

I am worried that if no papers are returned judgement will be taken against her by default as adised by LC0112G and she will get hit with a fine.

If we just fill out the forms and return stating we dispute the claim and let it go to court I assume somedody will then pick up the glaring mistake with the dates .The company will then go back through any past records and just issue another with another date on so this could go around and around almost for ever .

Personally i would do nothing but keep a copy of the letter with the wrong date.  If you do reply just say that you were not in the car park on the date of the alleged offense and that by asking you for money for an offense for which you were not responsible amounts to harassement and is illegal under ....blah...blah (plenty of templates available for that legal parlence)  don't say that their date is horrendously wrong just say "it wasn't me, boo hoo, why are you harassing me and causing me stress?" 

Like I said there is an element of the DPA here that you could also explore in that by obtaining your PPI (Personally Identifiable Information) under false pretences for the purpose of harassement is illegal under Section 55 of the DPA.  I personally would take them to town on their Registration and Notification requirements, asking for proof etc but then this is the domain of my job so I know what exactly to ask for.

[amba]

Cheers guys.

Off to work , now but will have a good think and another thorough read up later.

Anybody fancy being our legal representative then 

[LC0112G]

Personally i would do nothing but keep a copy of the letter with the wrong date.  If you do reply just say that you were not in the car park on the date of the alleged offense and that by asking you for money for an offense for which you were not responsible amounts to harassement and is illegal under ....blah...blah (plenty of templates available for that legal parlence)  don't say that their date is horrendously wrong just say "it wasn't me, boo hoo, why are you harassing me and causing me stress?" 

I strongly disagree. He has received form N1 plus official court papers. This IS going to court and he WILL lose if he doesn't defend. We're well past the point of replying to the parking company.

Like I said there is an element of the DPA here that you could also explore in that by obtaining your PPI (Personally Identifiable Information) under false pretences for the purpose of harassement is illegal under Section 55 of the DPA.  I personally would take them to town on their Registration and Notification requirements, asking for proof etc but then this is the domain of my job so I know what exactly to ask for.

All good points, but, these avenues are in addition to defending the court papers, not instead of.