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[Webby the Bear]

So. I decided to do a little experiment.

For a couple of weeks I'd drive like miss daisy and drive real slow. After this period I'd take the car out and give it a thrashing and see how the power was delivered. After this time it definitely felt like it was a bit lethargic.

For the next couple of weeks I thrashed the car literally revving the nuts off it and flooring it everywhere  I then after the same time did the same experiment and it certainly felt more responsive in the same conditions.

Now I like to rely on facts and evidence and 'feelings' are a bit untangle able so is this placebo or is this a real case of seeing the learning ECU in action?

My next question is if this learning ECU stuff is correct how does it learn the drivers style?

[jimbo125]

Don't know but might explain why the car feels different when you remove the battery for a good overnight charge, you wipe the ECU and it has to start afresh

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks jimbo.

I'm just interested to find out what makes it learn driving style. Im also wondering if all modern card have learning ECUs? Do some not? I assume it's an expensive ECU to produce and therefore you won't find them in the likes of Kia picantos?

[Webby the Bear]

Looking on the search engine it appears that ECU learning affects fuel trims based on the way you drive. So it seems that as its adjusting the amount of fuel going in then it's actively going to affect performance based on the way you drive.

Could do with Mark putting his knowledge and thoughts on this

[minifreek]

The learning ECU's are very clever in finding a driving style, but usually they will take an average style of driving and sort the trims accordingly.

It isn't placebo effect, they do learn if you are patient enough to teach them. It doesn't take 2 weeks to teach them though, only 3 turns of the key... to get the average...

I found this out when I had my Vectra B. I installed the 2.0 'H' cams, which are the 4 pot equivalent to the V6's G cams.

1st turn of key - don't 'feel' any difference...
2nd turn of key - feels a little more responsive...
3rd turn of key - average has been found and trims programmed accordingly...

4th turn - a mix of all 3 thus giving the average fuel trim/ignition timing...


You are correct that it does adapt to the driving styles but takes an average....


It doesn't help if there are 2 drivers of the same car. 1 drives like Miss Daisy and the other thrashes the nuts off it...

[Webby the Bear]

Mini that's really helpful thanks mate 

I'll never forget when I took my car to TB and he drove it and was like 'hmmm this is a bit down on power' lol. Well at that time I did have a broken front vacuum box and when I replaced rhat it was noticeably faster. But obviously the fact I drive like miss daisy also must have had a bearing!

I wonder then what the difference is like between two identical cars with regular drivers as miss daisy and a guy that thrashes it everywhere. Would be very interesting.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Ok, some facts

1) The engine ECU does not learn your driving style
2) The engine ECU can not be reset by removing the battery

Right, now we have that straight lol, the ECU that does learn your driving style is the autobox......

[Diamond Black Geezer]

[TheBoy]

ECU learning is purely based around the ECU adapting for its engine's characteristics, not the drivers.

The TCM does adapt its shift patterns based on recent usage.


To quickly reset Motronic's trim values is to artificially put on a fault code, eg unplug MAF, then clear this code with a code reader. This will also reset all the self learn values in the Motornic ECU (which is why you often get a stutter if you do it with the engine running).

[Webby the Bear]

Right, just the sort of knowledge I wanted!

Why is there so much crap on the net about the engine ECU learning your driving style.....no wonder it's hard to learn mechanics cos you read one thin and get told another! Lol

So. Engine doesn't learn and therefore doesn't alter fuel trims.

But the box presumably holds on to gears longer should you drive it like you stole it.

That would definitely explain why I've always noticed a huge difference in sport mode than without it (TB also didn't put it in sport iirc)

So. My next question. . .

If you floor it presumably this learned info is by the by anyway cos you're asking for Max power, air and fuel ?

[TheBoy]

Right, just the sort of knowledge I wanted!

Why is there so much crap on the net about the engine ECU learning your driving style.....no wonder it's hard to learn mechanics cos you read one thin and get told another! Lol

So. Engine doesn't learn and therefore doesn't alter fuel trims.

But the box presumably holds on to gears longer should you drive it like you stole it.

That would definitely explain why I've always noticed a huge difference in sport mode than without it (TB also didn't put it in sport iirc)

So. My next question. . .

If you floor it presumably this learned info is by the by anyway cos you're asking for Max power, air and fuel ?

Engine DOES learn, but based on engine/car/fuel characteristics, not driver.  For eg, if you were retarded enough to fit bigger injectors with more flow (coz its wicked, innit), the engine would quickly "learn" this and adjust trims to get the perfect mixture.


TCM does adjust change points based on driving. So if you jumped in mine, you'd notice it would change higher up the rev range, and change down earlier.

[Webby the Bear]

Cheers TB

So engine will learn adjustments in 'set up'. The TCM is what learns your 'driving style'. Ok got a

So, as for the 'flooring it' question. When this happens does this learning go out the window and thus reverts to 'max everything'?

[TheBoy]

Cheers TB

So engine will learn adjustments in 'set up'. The TCM is what learns your 'driving style'. Ok got a

So, as for the 'flooring it' question. When this happens does this learning go out the window and thus reverts to 'max everything'?

No, the learning is still used at WOT, but on most cars it will go open loop, thus not learn further during this stage.

[Webby the Bear]

Cheers TB

So engine will learn adjustments in 'set up'. The TCM is what learns your 'driving style'. Ok got a

So, as for the 'flooring it' question. When this happens does this learning go out the window and thus reverts to 'max everything'?

No, the learning is still used at WOT, but on most cars it will go open loop, thus not learn further during this stage.

Sorry for the bombardment of q's but this is really interesting...

So at WOT it will still learn and 'add' this info to its learned values. But in terms of a miss daisy driven car vs an exact same car but driven by a nutter, the speed at WOT will be the same? or the fact that yours is driven more 'spritidely' than mine will mean you'd have the edge on a full bore 0-60 (ignoring other variables for the sake of argument)?

[TheBoy]

Cheers TB

So engine will learn adjustments in 'set up'. The TCM is what learns your 'driving style'. Ok got a

So, as for the 'flooring it' question. When this happens does this learning go out the window and thus reverts to 'max everything'?

No, the learning is still used at WOT, but on most cars it will go open loop, thus not learn further during this stage.

Sorry for the bombardment of q's but this is really interesting...

So at WOT it will still learn and 'add' this info to its learned values. But in terms of a miss daisy driven car vs an exact same car but driven by a nutter, the speed at WOT will be the same? or the fact that yours is driven more 'spritidely' than mine will mean you'd have the edge on a full bore 0-60 (ignoring other variables for the sake of argument)?

It won't "learn" at WOT, but carry on using its previously learnt values.

Ignoring all other variables, they would have same performance.  However, a key variable, a Miss Daisy car is likely to be a bit gummed up and in need of an Italian Tuneup, whereas mine wouldn't be, so mine would likely be quicker (ignoring all other values).  This can cause a manual car, or auto without adaption learning, to appear a bit more spritely following a good, sustained spanking.