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[Migalot]

From my other post, folks will know that I am looking at Jags etc. My concern is that most of the Jaguar range is now diesel (and I think the same can be said about many other manufacturers).

I know that modern diesels are very frugal with fuel and often as powerful, if not more so, than their petrol equivalents. Also, they have (thanks to muddled government thinking) much lower VED rates, especially for the larger engines.

However. I don't like them very much. I don't have any issues with CO2 (it's not toxic and plants love it), but I do have issues with diesel particulates and NO2 emissions. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33254803

How do others stand on this issue?     

[zirk]

Diesel VS Petrol VS LPG. 

[tunnie]

LPG for me, fuel stations on my commute is not an issue.

Too many stories of DPF failures, flywheels, turbos and so failing on diesels for me. Unless you buy brand spankers, so less of problem. 70k miles examples could easily get issues.

I'll have same issue as you to replace my Omegas. If I lost the 2.2, I would strongly consider getting the 3.2 professionally gassed. Even at a cost £1.3k say, it makes more sense than £10k on a new ish diesel like a Merc CLS.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

diesel sales will start to fall soon. That's my view.

Not that the sales of something makes it directly equatable to quality of the product, or Blondie would sell more records this year than Lady Gaga.

But for me, nothing wrong with diesel. However, I can't see myself owning a newer-generation diesel unless it was on finance, and a company car etc, where I never had to lift the bonnet the whole time I had it. Let someone else worry about the servicing and allt he aggro.

Diesels stopped working for me as a viable alternative after you couldn't just stick old chip fat in them, and when the price of diesel doubled within a few short years to about the same as petrol. If I saw a shed of a 406, old merc, VW 1.9 etc diesel at the auction, then I'd have no issue owning it, running it into the ground, and chucking the odd few litres of tescos finest veg oil in. But you or anyone would never be doing that in their brand new Jag.

My TD Omega did about 22 to the gallon on average, my petrol V6 does 21 mpg. But petrol's now 1p cheaper, so the price for me per week difference is literally a pound or two.

New diesels are incredible to the gallon... but that said, so are modern petrols.

Potato, potarto... 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Petrol, petrol and petrol.

Who is known as a'dieselhead'?

[05omegav6]

Petrol, petrol and petrol.

Who is known as a'dieselhead'?

Well...

Ten Ton Diesel Head are a death metal band from Michigan

[Kevin Wood]

Problem with diesels is that you need a recent one to get anywhere near the driving experience of a petrol car and a significant improvement in economy. Diesels of the Omega era don't really give you either, but at least they were reliable.

That means a much bigger investment in the car in the first place, plus modern diesels have a lot of technology that's not that mature and therefore not that reliable.

Add to that the fact that modern diesels are simply not suitable for short journeys.

Political thinking is starting to sway against diesels given that air quality is not improving in cities despite each new euro emission target making the cars supposedly "cleaner" but, in addition, more of a faff to own and maintain. Then, we discover that they don't actually meet their emissions specs in practice anyway, and the some manufacturers have been deliberately avoiding meeting those targets. If it's a car you plan on keeping for a few years, you might wonder if there will be significant political disincentives to driving a diesel car soon. It's already starting in some european cities, after all.

Petrol car with LPG gives you the equivalent fuel savings with none of the reliability drawbacks if you're prepared to lose a bit of boot space and plan your refuelling stops better.

Newer generations of petrol engine are starting to strip away the advantages of a diesel anyway, but, again, that means a relatively expensive car as it'll have to be newish. That's likely to accelerate if manufacturers start to shift their development budgets to favour petrol.

.. or you could get a milk float. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Petrol, petrol and petrol.

Who is known as a'dieselhead'?

Well...

Ten Ton Diesel Head are a death metal band from Michigan

When I'm in the market for a bus, lorry or tractor I may revise my opinion of derv.

[Crazycarzowner]

Our Costco has started selling fuel - £1.03 for petrol, £1.04 Diesel 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Problem with diesels is that you need a recent one to get anywhere near the driving experience of a petrol car and a significant improvement in economy. Diesels of the Omega era don't really give you either, but at least they were reliable.

That means a much bigger investment in the car in the first place, plus modern diesels have a lot of technology that's not that mature and therefore not that reliable.

Add to that the fact that modern diesels are simply not suitable for short journeys.

Political thinking is starting to sway against diesels given that air quality is not improving in cities despite each new euro emission target making the cars supposedly "cleaner" but, in addition, more of a faff to own and maintain. Then, we discover that they don't actually meet their emissions specs in practice anyway, and the some manufacturers have been deliberately avoiding meeting those targets. If it's a car you plan on keeping for a few years, you might wonder if there will be significant political disincentives to driving a diesel car soon. It's already starting in some european cities, after all.

Petrol car with LPG gives you the equivalent fuel savings with none of the reliability drawbacks if you're prepared to lose a bit of boot space and plan your refuelling stops better.

Newer generations of petrol engine are starting to strip away the advantages of a diesel anyway, but, again, that means a relatively expensive car as it'll have to be newish. That's likely to accelerate if manufacturers start to shift their development budgets to favour petrol.

.. or you could get a milk float. 

Yes and yes.

Ten years ago diesels were set to save the planet from horrible nasty fumes.........and now.

[tunnie]

But as Kev and others have pointed out, to get a nice diesel, needs a big investment. Mother and Father T have 2014/3 Merc E and Jag XFs

So big investments, along with big service costs. Could not DIY these modern ones so easily.

Around the £10k mark, gets diesels that are at least 5 years old. At least for nice RWD executive saloons.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Extra charge for derv.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3124279/Is-start-diesel-tax-Islington-charges-extra-96-today.html

[Viral_Jim]

Unless you are going to buy *brand new* I just don't see most diesels making sense atm.

Taking my car search as an example, I looked at 5 series BMW's - upto 5 yrs old (so new shape) a 535d would set me back about £27k, the petrol, about £21k. So even assuming the Diesel stays as reliable as the petrol, I have £6k to spend on petrol, assuming the petrol does 30 avg and the diesel 35, you'd have to do a lot of miles (about 245,000 actually) to make up the difference. However this assumes you keep the car indefinitely, otherwise you'd probably see some of the difference back when you sold it.

Which, brings me onto another aspect of new diesels, they are all (more so than the petrols I think) designed to be frugal on test rather than in the real world. So I would always look at something like Honest John's real mpg when doing your sums. A good example is the XF, 3.0D S books at 47mpg, actual returns, 34.5. The 5.0V8 books 25.4, returns 25.3. So, if you based your calculations on the book values, running the diesel for 25,000 miles would save you £2,340, based on actuals, £1,350.

Also, the government tide is already turning against diesels, the Advisory Fuel Rates (what company car drivers can get paid for fuel) are one example and from 2017 new cars are taxed by value not CO2 for the first 5 years of their life, meaning some diesels will probably cost more in tax than the petrols - due to their higher list.

For the sake of balance, the category where I do think Diesels work are the "just" pre-DPF, DMF & stupid injector era (c2002). Things like the 406, Mk3 mondeo TDDI, rover 45 etc. These gave reasonable comfort 40-50mpg and generally solid reliability.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Wot 'e sed 

Can't agree enough. 

[Andy B]

Our Costco has started selling fuel - £1.03 for petrol, £1.04 Diesel 

Has it? Almost worth the run to Oldham for a tank