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[Mr Skrunts]

Very true, but helping people out is the Governments job along with other organizations.

Keeping warm in Winter as an older person is nothing to do with younger people.

So I stand by my initial stament, why dont they drop the VAT on household fuel bills for OAP's rather than being in a situation where they are set to male £?M/B's in profit per year.

[FRE07962128]

Talking of bills, they were onabout Pensioners on the Wright Stuff this morning.  The convervation was about the ammount of pensioners that die over Winter.

With the cost of fuel going up the question was, would they pay for fuel or food.?

It then went on to mention hown many £?M/B's will the fuel companys make this year.

Is this something else the Government should be preventing.  (drop the VAT for OAP's at least)  :-/

It's true that some O.A.P.S have a hard time ,and it is only right that the government should help out where possible.
But it is also true there are many pensioners who are extremely well off. This is because they have no mortgage to worry about,excellent company pensions and also get winter fuel allowance, free T.v licence,free prescriptions,free eye tests ,free bus travel.
My in laws average 6 Foriegn a year.They eat out approx 4 times a week. They have just returned from a 21 day cruise and are off to Switzerland for 2 weeks at the end of this month.
Perhaps these government benefits should be means tested so they go only to the most needy.

Having got to a certain age shouldnt they be treated equally.

Even though there are wealthy pensioners out there , surely they have paid thier way through life.

Why not just treat them equally, dont the older generation deserve it?

Although I can see Dusty's fair point (my father-in-law had filled up three high interest building society accounts and owned his house outright before he died in his 80's, after working very hard 12+ hour days in a leather tannery for most of his life), your valid argument I can also readily agree with.

However, the real problem at the moment is the Government, due to earlier fiscal  mismanagement and the current economic situation have no spare cash to pay for such wonderful schemes and I am afraid such assistance for the very poor OAP's, many of whom through no fault of their own have ended up in this position, is some way of.

The Government is faced with falling revenue currently, with Political commentaters highlighting that they are already losing £5 billion this year in lost stamp duty with the housing slump.  Add onto that the loss of revenue in respect of employment taxes, VAT on materials no longer required and then possible unemployment benifits to the laid off tradesman / labourers in this sector and you can start to see just some of the shortfall.

[Mr Skrunts]

Talking of bills, they were onabout Pensioners on the Wright Stuff this morning.  The convervation was about the ammount of pensioners that die over Winter.

With the cost of fuel going up the question was, would they pay for fuel or food.?[/highlight]

It then went on to mention hown many £?M/B's will the fuel companys make this year.

Is this something else the Government should be preventing.  (drop the VAT for OAP's at least)  :-/

Ok then.  Based on Dustys comments about the wealthy Pensioners.  Change the Tax Allownace, that way you pay your way though life to fund the Government who are hopless and Tax every opportunity they see, which in turn answers Lizzie's point of the Government being short of funds.

You get back to the class system before long.  But there aint 3 classes anymore, there are 2.  Well off or suffering.

Either way you look at it, and I wont take sides in politics, there is no real soloution, you sort one, annother suffers.

All it started as would Pensioners pay for Fuel or Food.  

[size=12]Do they Die of Hyperthermia or Malnutrition/Starvation.   :-/ :-/

Up and coming 47% rise in Fuel Costs.  You Tell Me[/size]  :question

[dippydave]

http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/newsletter?productId=30817&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=1GB+Arianet+Silver+Shadow+Pen+Drive&utm_campaign=newsletter180708

sorry to get back to the OP rather than the interesting debate on OAP benefits, but who are Aria? I've not heard of them before! With pricing like i've just been finding tho, they give eBuyer, Overclockers, amazon, Dabs, Tekheads et al a pounding on the price front!!

[Varche]

I have to comment on this. The really poor elderly(and there are enough) will die from a mixture of not having heating and not eating properly.

The old age pension paid in Britain is an absolute joke. About a £100 a week?  Other EU countries provide about a half of the final salary to the pensioner and lots of other benefits like free weekly outings.

Personally I think it is absolutely disgusting that pensioners in Britain get so little. Most lived through the deprivations of World War 2 and some the aftermath of WW1 too to make the World a better place. What suffering have us "youngsters" lived through? Diddly squat. We have onbly known times of plenty.

Think about it. Mostly pensioners expenditure is food and heating. What has gone up? Food and heating. I bet you this and the other possible governments won't be giving pensioners a 20% increase in pensions next year! Or restoring pensions to their true value.

As for some pensioners being in a fortunate position to enjoy life. Good luck to them. Most will have worked hard all their lives and paid into the system for the whole of their life.

I watched a prog on UK TV the other day about benefit fraud. Use your energy to shop someone rather than cribbing about pensioners. One in five people are on benefits apparently. That will be the single mothers.

Finally  to quote Dusty" Remember also how many O.A.P. have enough money to winter in Spain ,and then come back home to pick up their winter fuel allowance.All human beings are worthy of help and not just the elderly."  The first winter I was here it was minus ten for days and minus 14 one DAY. Most houses here have no central heating. Any pensioner overwintering here or living here deserves their £200.

varche - blood now just off boiling point.

PS A good question someone ought to ask Gordon, AKA Darth Vader, Will he be giving back the windfall he has had in tax on oil and gas as it has produced much more treasury cash than they expected when they did the last budget?

    

[Vamps]

I have to comment on this. The really poor elderly(and there are enough) will die from a mixture of not having heating and not eating properly.

The old age pension paid in Britain is an absolute joke. About a £100 a week?  Other EU countries provide about a half of the final salary to the pensioner and lots of other benefits like free weekly outings.

Personally I think it is absolutely disgusting that pensioners in Britain get so little. Most lived through the deprivations of World War 2 and some the aftermath of WW1 too to make the World a better place. What suffering have us "youngsters" lived through? Diddly squat. We have onbly known times of plenty.

Think about it. Mostly pensioners expenditure is food and heating. What has gone up? Food and heating. I bet you this and the other possible governments won't be giving pensioners a 20% increase in pensions next year! Or restoring pensions to their true value.

As for some pensioners being in a fortunate position to enjoy life. Good luck to them. Most will have worked hard all their lives and paid into the system for the whole of their life.

I watched a prog on UK TV the other day about benefit fraud. Use your energy to shop someone rather than cribbing about pensioners. One in five people are on benefits apparently. That will be the single mothers.

Finally  to quote Dusty" Remember also how many O.A.P. have enough money to winter in Spain ,and then come back home to pick up their winter fuel allowance.All human beings are worthy of help and not just the elderly."  The first winter I was here it was minus ten for days and minus 14 one DAY. Most houses here have no central heating. Any pensioner overwintering here or living here deserves their £200.

varche - blood now just off boiling point.

PS A good question someone ought to ask Gordon, AKA Darth Vader, Will he be giving back the windfall he has had in tax on oil and gas as it has produced much more treasury cash than they expected when they did the last budget?

    

I agree with everything you say, although I though that some elderly people went to Spain for the winter cos it was warmer, cheap hotels etc, not that I have any problems with whatever their reason.
There are people living in this country who do not have to pay rent, council, tax heating or electric.
There are also many benefit scroungers and fraudsters claiming and working. The basic pension is something that all those who have worked all their lives for are entitled to and should continue to be entitled to even if they have other pensions, they have paid for it.
Unfortunately we have a benefits system which in fact encourages people not to look after themselves as it is, take away a pensioners right to their state pension and they can rightly turn rounds and say what is the point in saving for themselves.

[Martin_1962]

Since my pension is worth FA (thanks Gordon ) I will work into retirement. I reckon two years or so part time to earn money.

As to my current job, been here 16 years now can't see me changing, we are working at cutting back on Johns programming not due to any problems, but so when the time comes he can retire.

He has sort of hinted that the staff he has can run the company then, so  I won't get left in hte lurch.

With the main programming team in their 40s at least they are experienced (unlike most graduates)

[robbo299]

Help is out there for pensioners. They just have to claim it. Not all the info is freely available though. My mum retired 32 years ago, she is 92 now, and up until my father died 12 years ago they did struggle at times with only a small company pension, £22 a month, and the state pension as income. No foreign holidays, just a week away near Lowestoft, and an old Vaux Cavalier for transport. Since he died she has had help to get "benefits" she didn't know were available, and, by her own admission, is quite comfortable now. Free bus pass, tv licence, reduction on council tax, heating allowance, and, as she has been living in the same council house for 54 years, housing benefit. She is by no means rich, and even manages to save literaly a few quid a week so she won't be a " burden" when she goes. In some way it's sad it's only after my father died did these benefits become known.

[Vamps]

Help is out there for pensioners. They just have to claim it. Not all the info is freely available though. My mum retired 32 years ago, she is 92 now, and up until my father died 12 years ago they did struggle at times with only a small company pension, £22 a month, and the state pension as income. No foreign holidays, just a week away near Lowestoft, and an old Vaux Cavalier for transport. Since he died she has had help to get "benefits" she didn't know were available, and, by her own admission, is quite comfortable now. Free bus pass, tv licence, reduction on council tax, heating allowance, and, as she has been living in the same council house for 54 years, housing benefit. She is by no means rich, and even manages to save literaly a few quid a week so she won't be a " burden" when she goes. In some way it's sad it's only after my father died did these benefits become known.

I can not quote any details but I understand there are a lot of benefits available which go unclaimed. One of the reasons is that they are not 'advertised' and another is that the forms can be very difficult to complete and some older people are too proud to ask for assistance, even if they knew where to find it.

[FRE07962128]

I have to comment on this. The really poor elderly(and there are enough) will die from a mixture of not having heating and not eating properly.

The old age pension paid in Britain is an absolute joke. About a £100 a week?  Other EU countries provide about a half of the final salary to the pensioner and lots of other benefits like free weekly outings.

Personally I think it is absolutely disgusting that pensioners in Britain get so little. Most lived through the deprivations of World War 2 and some the aftermath of WW1 too to make the World a better place. What suffering have us "youngsters" lived through? Diddly squat. We have onbly known times of plenty.

Think about it. Mostly pensioners expenditure is food and heating. What has gone up? Food and heating. I bet you this and the other possible governments won't be giving pensioners a 20% increase in pensions next year! Or restoring pensions to their true value.

As for some pensioners being in a fortunate position to enjoy life. Good luck to them. Most will have worked hard all their lives and paid into the system for the whole of their life.

I watched a prog on UK TV the other day about benefit fraud. Use your energy to shop someone rather than cribbing about pensioners. One in five people are on benefits apparently. That will be the single mothers.

Finally  to quote Dusty" Remember also how many O.A.P. have enough money to winter in Spain ,and then come back home to pick up their winter fuel allowance.All human beings are worthy of help and not just the elderly."  The first winter I was here it was minus ten for days and minus 14 one DAY. Most houses here have no central heating. Any pensioner overwintering here or living here deserves their £200.

varche - blood now just off boiling point.

PS A good question someone ought to ask Gordon, AKA Darth Vader, Will he be giving back the windfall he has had in tax on oil and gas as it has produced much more treasury cash than they expected when they did the last budget?
    

As I stated earlier in these postings Varche, the problem is that our Government has mis-managed the economy so badly that there are no reserves left outside of the budget to do much about anything now we have entered a recession.   All the extra revenue from taxes on fuel, let alone anything else, has been swallowed up by falling revenue in many areas of the economy along with additional national debt and expenditure to just stay where we are.

The Government is indeed even re-writing its own fiscal regulations, which currently state that the Government cannot borrow more than 40% of its gross nation product (GNP), to allow for exceeding this limit to facilitate the extra borrowing it requires to "stay afloat"

Good old New Labour; just like the old Party of history, the Party of high taxes and high spending leading to massive debts!!    

[robbo299]

Thats what i found with my parents Mike. They didn't know any better at the time but when my dad died my mum was told " you do know you can claim for this " and " you do know you can claim for that". Well, the answer was "No, i didn't!" Agree about the form filling as well. I do it all for my mum as she is partialy sighted and it does MY head in at times. :-/

[robbo299]

Agree with you about New and Old Labour Lizzie. I heard today they are going to change the Labour party emblem. They are going to change it from a rose to a condom as it more accurately reflects their political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks and gives you a sense of security while you are actually being screwed!  

[FRE07962128]

Agree with you about New and Old Labour Lizzie. I heard today they are going to change the Labour party emblem. They are going to change it from a rose to a condom as it more accurately reflects their political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks and gives you a sense of security while you are actually being screwed!  

Very clever, funny and so near to the truth Robbo! Brilliant!
                                        
  

[robbo299]

I thank you

[Martin_1962]

More to point the government need about £20,000,000,000 for ID cards and the database, two new carriers are only about £6,000,000,000