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Author Topic: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb  (Read 8919 times)

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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #15 on: 25 October 2016, 13:36:33 »

Seconded the grinder method.  :y Started with a drill, after ten minutes just threw it down and decided life's too short, got the grinder out, two minutes and off!

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« Last Edit: 25 October 2016, 18:21:39 by Andy A »
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Nick W

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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #17 on: 25 October 2016, 18:48:21 »

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.


Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.
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Andy A

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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #18 on: 25 October 2016, 21:02:37 »

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.


Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?
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Nick W

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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #19 on: 25 October 2016, 21:32:21 »

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.


Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?


Mine are ATP. I don't know about the other two, as I didn't buy them.
I've not seen anything to make me think that the pattern wishbones are inferior to GM. That's much harder to say about the bushes inside them, but I consider fitting poly fronts a necessity.
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #20 on: 25 October 2016, 21:35:34 »

The ones on your car are original factory fit :y
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Diamond Black Geezer

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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #21 on: 26 October 2016, 09:43:45 »

Agreed - as far as I'm concerned a lump of metal is a lump of metal in this case. The rubber compounds vary greatly in quality, and it's this that wears, and this is the issue. The only other is the cosmetic side, so a coat of decent hammerite / stone chip / Rustbuster 121 will see that right too. (No point in replacing the bushes, then leave the metal rusting, leave that kind of thing to Wheeler Dealers)

Not sure about the nut n bolts slipping in the holes, I see the logic, Next time I'm under I could look for any signs of mine having slipped. (Mine have about half an inch of paint on them  :D, so any movement should be easy to spot)
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #22 on: 26 October 2016, 10:27:48 »

Fascinating thread, gentlemen. I have never refurbished a wishbone, I always fit ATP wishbones and have yet to wear one out.
 I am nervous of fitting a rigid poly front bush, because I do not understand why Opel designers fitted a horizontal front bush and a vertical rear bush. Common sense tells me I need two bushes both horizontal and in line. Please explain to me Opel's reasoning.
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #23 on: 26 October 2016, 11:19:09 »

They do different things, literally. I know what you mean, why not both horizontal, surely?

The middle part of the front bush actually remains where it is all the time, and actually twists when the wishbone moves up and down. The rear one, again, the centre remains vertical all the time, but the solid chunk of rubber surrounding it compresses and stretches when the wishbone moves up and down. That how...

As for why they did, well not sure, clearly there's and automatic desire for the wishbone to spring back to its rest position, but the weight of the vehicle and the great big spring does that already. Whyever it is, it won awards, and lasted from 1986 to 2003.  :)

You need not be nervous about it, the design of the poly means it freely spins, doesnt distort that same twisting does also mean theres an element of vagueness in the front steering, (and also damps out vibration to a point) and in the long-term, as we know, means the tracking goes out. You only notice this when you realise your new tyre is down to the canvas on one side, and on 7mm the other!
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #24 on: 26 October 2016, 11:45:09 »

Thank you.
I suppose the fore and aft forces are best handled by the vertical bush, while the horizonal bush  stabilises things. On my 1960 double wishbone Mini the horizontal metal pivots bore loads in many directions, and needed reshimming every 5000 miles. There were no MOT tests in those days.
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #25 on: 26 October 2016, 13:45:26 »

I once owned a terrific book about suspension systems. I think I loaned it to a mate at Uni and never saw it again. But it explained in massive depth how various suspension systems all have - in theory - advantages and disadvantages, and the compromises which all have to make. From memory - the 'perfect' suspension is one which keeps the wheel in exactly the same plane, at right angles to the road, at all times. That's the Holy Grail, but cars also need to steer, ideally long service intervals, go in straight lines, also corner, be production feasible, cost etc... and that's where the compromises have to come in

As you'll be well aware, the Mini suspension (all the factory versions) is very very basic simple, but is set up well, for excellent results. And of course a very good suspension (double wishbone on, say the Pug 407) can be set up to not create particularly special results. That was the nub of this books point - well-set up suspension of conventional, even boring design, will trump a top-end, complex suspension that's 'unfinished' That's the Omega in a nutshell, evolved sine the 70s, and basically bang on from the late 80s onwards. Nothing too special about it (the rear track rods were somewhat unusual for the day, even innovative) but it's a MacPherson front strut, 'triangular' control arm, and nice, simple back end with semi-trailing arms, angled to generate slight passive steering. Rear drive. It works very well, and you can chuck a very high amount of bhp before the chassis hits its limitation. Compare that with a torque-steering Vectra C VXR which was 'all new' and came in just as the Omega went out to grass.  :y
« Last Edit: 26 October 2016, 13:53:16 by Diamond Black Geezer »
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #26 on: 26 October 2016, 21:35:13 »

Thanks for that explanation, DBG. All suspension systems are compromises. I agree, the Omega Mcpherson strut system with rubber pivoted lower wishbones, works well enough, with good handling and little need for maintenance. Camber varies with suspension travel and tyre wear can be uneven, but the car is quiet, comfortable, cheap to run, and easy to maintain.
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #27 on: 27 October 2016, 20:57:37 »

I was looking up the Powerflex front bushing and came across some Strongflex bushings.

http://www.strongflex.eu/en/1161-omega-b-fl-99-03

Anyone tried these?

The red ones are the same Hardness: 80ShA as the Powerflex.
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #28 on: 28 October 2016, 17:02:18 »

Andy, those are no crustier than I would expect.


Riveting the balljoints is a stronger joint than bolting them, as a properly set rivet expands to fill the holes. I'd rather have that than faffing about with 16 year old grotty parts that look stronger. I immediately binned all three sets of knackered GM wishbones that I've changed this year.

Interesting about the rivets.

What make of wishbones did you fit instead?


Mine are ATP. I don't know about the other two, as I didn't buy them.
I've not seen anything to make me think that the pattern wishbones are inferior to GM. That's much harder to say about the bushes inside them, but I consider fitting poly fronts a necessity.

Nick, out of curiosity where did you buy your ATP wishbones from?

Thanks

The ones on your car are original factory fit :y

I reckon you should change your name again to Keen Eyed Al.  :y
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Re: Need part numbers for a wishbone refurb
« Reply #29 on: 28 October 2016, 17:06:24 »

I'll stick my neck out and suggest that Nick bought his from ATP ::)

As to whether it was direct via their german website or ebay, only he can answer... but again I will wager that it was the cheaper of the two outlets ;D

To clarify, this isn't a dig at Nick, simply that he doesn't dick about when buying bits for his cars :y
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