Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[aaronjb]

Tax us out of the arse some more, apparently.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44230033

The Institute for Fiscal Studies and Health Foundation said the NHS would need an extra 4% a year - or £2,000 per UK household - for the next 15 years.

It said the only realistic way this could be paid for was by tax rises.

I hope you're all looking forward to your pay cuts! Where's TB when you need him?

[Kevin Wood]

The NHS can swallow everything we can throw at it and it'll still want more.

Can't see the Tory turkeys voting for Christmas, though.

[aaronjb]

The NHS can swallow everything we can throw at it and it'll still want more.

That was my thought.. 4%? More like 44%.. and then the other 56% to make up the difference

[Marks DTM Calib]

Pointless giving them anything until the inherent internal issues are sorted.

The contempt at consultant level is shocking and giving more money would, in my view, make it worse.

Get it organised (communication is also piss poor), measure the right things well and then see where the investment is needed.

[tigers_gonads]

The NHS can swallow everything we can throw at it and it'll still want more.

Can't see the Tory turkeys voting for Christmas, though.

I've known lasses who can do that 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

The usual bollix that we hear over and over again.
Gordon Brown more than doubled the NHS budget while he was Chancellor, and the end result was what we have now, which is much worse than it was 25 years ago.
Anyone who really thinks the biggest of its problems are financial constraints, shouldn't be allowed to make public declarations, or indeed dress themselves in the morning.

[Gaffers]

TBH it is well-known that the NHS needs a 4% annual increase in budget to maintain services.  If taxation is somehow linked to GDP (simplified version, I know) and growth is below that you are going to have a deficit.  Historically this has been paid for by borrowing but we all know that this model is not sustainable.

Thus, unless we increase the amount of tax collected we will probably have tough decisions to make.  E.g. Spend more on health but forgo our state pensions, more on health but tax business more, less on health and get private insurance to pay for the difference (as per the french model), etc, etc.

Putting your head in the sand and doing nothing will just make it worse.

[Rods2]

TBH it is well-known that the NHS needs a 4% annual increase in budget to maintain services.  If taxation is somehow linked to GDP (simplified version, I know) and growth is below that you are going to have a deficit.  Historically this has been paid for by borrowing but we all know that this model is not sustainable.

Thus, unless we increase the amount of tax collected we will probably have tough decisions to make.  E.g. Spend more on health but forgo our state pensions, more on health but tax business more, less on health and get private insurance to pay for the difference (as per the french model), etc, etc.

Putting your head in the sand and doing nothing will just make it worse.

Sorry, but totally wrong. Estimated UK Government borrowing for 2017-18 was ~£58bn and actual borrowing ~£40bn, where tax receipts were £18bn higher than expected. This was a combination of higher than expected growth, lower social security bills from lower unemployment and record employment, higher than expected wage growth and higher than expected inflation with the resultant taxation fiscal drag.

[Varche]

I think the answer to the NHS is two fold.

Firstly cut down on waste and inefficiencies. Thinks like missed appointments.


The second is the NHS will need more money. That is a fact unless you want to reverse medical progress. Forty years ago people died younger. Now advances mean people live longer and as a result need treating for conditions that would not have been there. A simple example is heart condition under control but the person develops mobility, incontinence, fractures from falling during their extended life. Care for the elderly living much longer is a huge time bomb as anyone involved in procuring care for a relative knows right now.


Of course the latter can be ameliorated  by children taking their old folk back in and looking after them like they do in other countries.   

[Gaffers]

TBH it is well-known that the NHS needs a 4% annual increase in budget to maintain services.  If taxation is somehow linked to GDP (simplified version, I know) and growth is below that you are going to have a deficit.  Historically this has been paid for by borrowing but we all know that this model is not sustainable.

Thus, unless we increase the amount of tax collected we will probably have tough decisions to make.  E.g. Spend more on health but forgo our state pensions, more on health but tax business more, less on health and get private insurance to pay for the difference (as per the french model), etc, etc.

Putting your head in the sand and doing nothing will just make it worse.

Sorry, but totally wrong. Estimated UK Government borrowing for 2017-18 was ~£58bn and actual borrowing ~£40bn, where tax receipts were £18bn higher than expected. This was a combination of higher than expected growth, lower social security bills from lower unemployment and record employment, higher than expected wage growth and higher than expected inflation with the resultant taxation fiscal drag.

For one year, yes they were higher.  I refer to the longer trend.  You need to have an average increase in income from taxes which can satisfy the 4% annual increase in NHS budget.  Eventually you will get to a point where hard decisions will have to be made unless you change the model of how it is funded.

[biggriffin]

The NHS, needs to be run by people who understand business, not by politicians, the NHS is awash with money, they just keep wasting it.

They are the largest users of drugs 'in the world's yet pay over the odds,  they are also the largest company, for the use of medical related equipment, but don't use their buying power to there advantage,  they purchase by authority's, not as the NHS..

Get some of the supermarket's to run them, maybe offer reward style points, and bogoffs.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Something in the order of 1.3 million people work for the NHS and less than half of them have any kind of medical qualification.
This might suggest its top heavy with pen pushers with shiny arses to their trousers.

[Doctor Gollum]

Something in the order of 1.3 million people work for the NHS and less than half of them have any kind of medical qualification.
This might suggest its top heavy with pen pushers with shiny arses to their trousers.

The other half are all being paid to do degrees, presumably using money borrowed from elsewhere and repaid over decades at sub prime rates

[Lizzie Zoom]

Once again on the OOF everything is being over simplified and all think they have the answers, like get rid of the managers and re-organise everything, based on mis-conceptions and personal  opinions.

These are the key facts of the operation which is one of the largest in the World:

https://www.nhs70.nhs.uk/about/nhs-facts

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs

It takes much money and managers to keep it all going, but certainly a new approach is required. Just do not believe there is one answer to resolve all. Only a fool thinks there is a simple answer. If you think you have it, rather than just sounding off about it all, put yourself in a position to change it all if you think you are THE manager or politician with the ability to do so!

[biggriffin]

Once again on the OOF everything is being over simplified and all think they have the answers, like get rid of the managers and re-organise everything, based on mis-conceptions and personal  opinions.

These are the key facts of the operation which is one of the largest in the World:

https://www.nhs70.nhs.uk/about/nhs-facts

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs

It takes much money and managers to keep it all going, but certainly a new approach is required. Just do not believe there is one answer to resolve all. Only a fool thinks there is a simple answer. If you think you have it, rather than just sounding off about it all, put yourself in a position to change it all if you think you are THE manager or politician with the ability to do so!

Few examples for you

I pay 16p for packet of paracetamol,

NHS pay 26p for paracetamol.

I can buy the nitrle gloves the NHS use for a £1 a box cheaper than NHS,  just 2 small example of wastage,,  All government departments if offered a discount on the order, have to take it, for the initial procurement, even if afterwards the price goes up.

The NHS needs to be run as a business, not as a political pawn.