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[Marks DTM Calib]

Just watched the Hammond walk-around on drivetribe and I'm now not at all keen.

Its been stuffed with loads of new and advanced tech, which looks great when its lolloping up the side of a mountain with some extreme sports bloke in the drivers' seat, but also means it won't work - or not for long at any rate, because its JLR.

So you have a car that has all this wonderful off road ability (which I have no doubt will be class-leading), but in a vehicle that you need a 14year old with a laptop to fix when it inevitably won't start/ fails to proceed. What we've ended up with is basically a virtue-signalling pose-piece, which is about as far away from the original Defender concept as its possible to get. 

I think you need to concentrate more on your bean counting 

The high spec ones will be riddled with tech, as all makes and models are, interestingly the JLR electronic modules are by far the most reliable in the business (due to a rather challenging internal review process all suppliers have to go through and comply with).

The low spec one, much much less so, certainly no more than on any competitors vehicle.

[Viral_Jim]

The high spec ones will be riddled with tech, as all makes and models are, interestingly the JLR electronic modules are by far the most reliable in the business (due to a rather challenging internal review process all suppliers have to go through and comply with).

The low spec one, much much less so, certainly no more than on any competitors vehicle.

If that is truly the case then why is every long term review or customer satisfaction survey littered with reports of "electronic gremlins" and frequent trips to the very lovely customer lounges in the  dealerships? 

I come back again to the point that all this stuff is fine and dandy in theory (and I honestly do understand you flying the flag for your employer) but it just doesn't hold true to real world experiences.

[Marks DTM Calib]

The high spec ones will be riddled with tech, as all makes and models are, interestingly the JLR electronic modules are by far the most reliable in the business (due to a rather challenging internal review process all suppliers have to go through and comply with).

The low spec one, much much less so, certainly no more than on any competitors vehicle.

If that is truly the case then why is every long term review or customer satisfaction survey littered with reports of "electronic gremlins" and frequent trips to the very lovely customer lounges in the  dealerships? 

I come back again to the point that all this stuff is fine and dandy in theory (and I honestly do understand you flying the flag for your employer) but it just doesn't hold true to real world experiences.

If you read the reports, you will note a common theme, that of software gremlins particularly in immature infotainment, electronic hardware failures are close to unheard of.

What is also evident as of this years results is JLR being the most improved on the infotainment front, mainly thanks to a large campaign for software updates and now supporting SOTA.

THE major issue is JLR products bring on fault lights for minor issues when the competitors don't, this creates a perception of poor quality and dealer visits when they are not needed, this is being addressed.

[Doctor Gollum]

Who would have thought that being able to watch Netflix whilst waiting for recovery because the engine has tried to inhale an egr valve was a priority... 

[Doctor Gollum]

I would conceded the use of electronics for the engine for efficiency and emissions purposes, and for the drivetrain for driver aids. But does a Defender really need electric windows, climate control and and all singing, all dancing radio?

Surely the 110 doesn't do anything that the Disco Sport already does

All that said, I suppose that the FFRR has transitioned away from its hose out origins, so perhaps the new Defender is the right step in the name of progress...

Can't help but think that less is more though

[Viral_Jim]

If you read the reports, you will note a common theme, that of software gremlins particularly in immature infotainment, electronic hardware failures are close to unheard of.

Taken from the Car and Driver Velar review, the same review acknowledged that an update to the infotainment software meant it was still sluggish, but no longer restarted frequently mid journey - praise be! But also noted another trip to the dealer due to a leaking fuel rail, at 12,000 miles 

A particularly worrisome unscheduled warranty repair was required at nearly 31,000 miles to fix a broken wire in the Velar's telematics control unit, which immobilized the vehicle in the driveway at a staffer's home. This necessitated a tow to the dealership, which sounds simpler than it turned out to be.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, presumably nothing wrong with the engine and drivetrain of the vehicle, but its bricked because of some ancillary black box is giving duff answers that the car doesn't like. And this is a vehicle that lives a relatively cosseted urban existence, not bouncing up a rutted field in the highlands - or any of the other things the new defender is supposed to be capable of.

[Marks DTM Calib]

If you read the reports, you will note a common theme, that of software gremlins particularly in immature infotainment, electronic hardware failures are close to unheard of.

Taken from the Car and Driver Velar review, the same review acknowledged that an update to the infotainment software meant it was still sluggish, but no longer restarted frequently mid journey - praise be! But also noted another trip to the dealer due to a leaking fuel rail, at 12,000 miles 

A particularly worrisome unscheduled warranty repair was required at nearly 31,000 miles to fix a broken wire in the Velar's telematics control unit, which immobilized the vehicle in the driveway at a staffer's home. This necessitated a tow to the dealership, which sounds simpler than it turned out to be.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, presumably nothing wrong with the engine and drivetrain of the vehicle, but its bricked because of some ancillary black box giving duff answers that the car doesn't like. And this is a vehicle that lives a relatively cosseted urban existence, not bouncing up a rutted field in the highlands - or any of the other things the new defender is supposed to be capable of.

So firstly, there are no wires IN the Telematics control unit (I happen to know the exact details of this one, the root cause was an after market tow bar fit where the TCU supply wire had been hacked to power a towbar module......)

And yes, as per all makes, the Telematics can immobilise the vehicle (for the obvious reasons)

[Viral_Jim]

Clearly reliability is only something that can be demonstrated over time, and if, as you say the electronics are the most robust in the business and the software has been titivated, then I'm sure that will be reflected in the reliability and customer satisfaction ratings.

Personally I won't hold my breath but equally I have every confidence the defender will be a huge commercial success, whether it's ultra reliable, or a complete dog.