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Author Topic: Rear Brakes  (Read 16191 times)

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Andy B

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #60 on: 25 April 2020, 19:46:45 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

It's a tool to do the pins, spring and slotted cup washer .... as said I've never used one, let alone on an Omega, but I know they exist.
If the cup is too big, I'm sure that as DG is implying, you could always make it smaller with a grinder  ;)
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Entwood

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #61 on: 25 April 2020, 19:52:34 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

Why would you be doing this through the access hole ?? The shoes are removed/replaced with the drum OFF .. the hole in the drive shaft flange is pretty big and long nosed pliers fit in easily ... .. at least that's how I've always done it !!
« Last Edit: 25 April 2020, 20:00:19 by Entwood »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #62 on: 25 April 2020, 20:27:20 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

It's a tool to do the pins, spring and slotted cup washer .... as said I've never used one, let alone on an Omega, but I know they exist.
If the cup is too big, I'm sure that as DG is implying, you could always make it smaller with a grinder  ;)
Not quite the direction I was going in, but valid nevertheless  ;)
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #63 on: 25 April 2020, 22:04:21 »

Well I found a solution to putting those damn springs/cups on ,firstly I found a 2BA nut spinner on a screwdriver just perfect fit for inside the cup leaving a small lip on the cup.Then I found a piece of wood drilled a hole same size as nut spinner end then cut the end out forming a U shape and used it as a wedge.Push nut spinner in push on cup having lined it up then apply wedge holds everything in position then you can remove nut spinner then with torch and lond nosed pliers turn pin and it was really quite successful,when located just push spinner in to remove tension on spring and withdrawal wedge simples!!!!
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #64 on: 25 April 2020, 22:23:59 »

Things were going very well and i offered up one of my old discs which I'd cleaned up the inside leading edge and it was tight,too tight in fact they are Delphi LS1381 and have more meat on them than the old GM ones so I'll double check it again tomorrow and if I can't get it free it up then I might have to reuse the old ones.Will see better I suppose when new discs arrive but it's fractions i suppose!! This pad retaining clip as the rivet has just gone on one but it generally looks solid enough and reason I couldn't nut and bolt it? Thank you Johnnydog for your offer which I may well take up but will try all avenues first
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #65 on: 25 April 2020, 22:32:38 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

Why would you be doing this through the access hole ?? The shoes are removed/replaced with the drum OFF .. the hole in the drive shaft flange is pretty big and long nosed pliers fit in easily ... .. at least that's how I've always done it !!
Who said the drum was still on? Clearly it's been taken off. That leaves the hub flange in the way. As I recall the access hole in the hub flange is Ø12mm. So a Ø25mm tool just isn't going to fit through. Long pointy nose pliers will.

Anyway I see he's used a 2BA nut spinner to depress the spring. That will also easily fit through the hole. And is readily available.
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Entwood

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #66 on: 25 April 2020, 22:39:13 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

Why would you be doing this through the access hole ?? The shoes are removed/replaced with the drum OFF .. the hole in the drive shaft flange is pretty big and long nosed pliers fit in easily ... .. at least that's how I've always done it !!
Who said the drum was still on? Clearly it's been taken off. That leaves the hub flange in the way. As I recall the access hole in the hub flange is Ø12mm. So a Ø25mm tool just isn't going to fit through. Long pointy nose pliers will.

Anyway I see he's used a 2BA nut spinner to depress the spring. That will also easily fit through the hole. And is readily available.

OK .. when you said "access hole" I thought you were refering to the hole in the drum that you use to adjust the brake ......  I wouldn't call the holes in the flange plate "access holes" ......   :)
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #67 on: 25 April 2020, 22:41:20 »

Things were going very well and i offered up one of my old discs which I'd cleaned up the inside leading edge and it was tight,too tight in fact they are Delphi LS1381 and have more meat on them than the old GM ones so I'll double check it again tomorrow and if I can't get it free it up then I might have to reuse the old ones.Will see better I suppose when new discs arrive but it's fractions i suppose!! This pad retaining clip as the rivet has just gone on one but it generally looks solid enough and reason I couldn't nut and bolt it? Thank you Johnnydog for your offer which I may well take up but will try all avenues first
None of this makes any sense ???

If the discs don't fit over the shoes, then you haven't done the job properly.

You adjust the shoes with the disc fitted. As per the guide.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #68 on: 25 April 2020, 22:46:11 »

There is a tool for the job  :y
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drum-Brake-Spring-Washer-Tool-Mechanics-Removal-Tool-Brake-Shoe-Retaining-Washer/202662616835?hash=item2f2fa21f03:g:kZ4AAOSwouxcwsCn

.... never used one though  :-\
Aside from the slow boat from China, are you sure this tool is for this job? The drawing suggests the business end is 2.5cm in diameter, way too big to fit through the access hole in the hub.

Why would you be doing this through the access hole ?? The shoes are removed/replaced with the drum OFF .. the hole in the drive shaft flange is pretty big and long nosed pliers fit in easily ... .. at least that's how I've always done it !!
Who said the drum was still on? Clearly it's been taken off. That leaves the hub flange in the way. As I recall the access hole in the hub flange is Ø12mm. So a Ø25mm tool just isn't going to fit through. Long pointy nose pliers will.

Anyway I see he's used a 2BA nut spinner to depress the spring. That will also easily fit through the hole. And is readily available.

OK .. when you said "access hole" I thought you were refering to the hole in the drum that you use to adjust the brake ......  I wouldn't call the holes in the flange plate "access holes" ......   :)
12mm might be the threaded wheel bolt hole, which is what you adjust the handbrake through, the extra hole on the flange is significantly bigger, possibly not an inch, but certainly well over 12mm ;)
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #69 on: 25 April 2020, 22:51:50 »

@ Doctor Gollum.
The hole is not threaded. If i'ts not Ø12mm then it might be Ø14mm. But whatever it is it's nowhere near 25mm.

Things were going very well and i offered up one of my old discs which I'd cleaned up the inside leading edge and it was tight,too tight in fact they are Delphi LS1381 and have more meat on them than the old GM ones so I'll double check it again tomorrow and if I can't get it free it up then I might have to reuse the old ones.Will see better I suppose when new discs arrive but it's fractions i suppose!! This pad retaining clip as the rivet has just gone on one but it generally looks solid enough and reason I couldn't nut and bolt it? Thank you Johnnydog for your offer which I may well take up but will try all avenues first
Delphi LS1381 are the shoes? So I take you to mean that your old discs won't fit over the new shoes. So you need to back off the ribbed adjuster that sits between the two shoes at the top. Find the point where the disc just fits and then back off the adjusters a further half a turn. Make a note of which way you need to turn the adjuster to back-off. And don't assume that both sides are the same. Check!

A small nut and bolt is likely to come loose and fall off. I suggest you use a small short steel pop rivet. Put a close fitting washer on each side if needed.
« Last Edit: 25 April 2020, 22:57:00 by Enceladus »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #70 on: 25 April 2020, 22:54:32 »

Things were going very well and i offered up one of my old discs which I'd cleaned up the inside leading edge and it was tight,too tight in fact they are Delphi LS1381 and have more meat on them than the old GM ones so I'll double check it again tomorrow and if I can't get it free it up then I might have to reuse the old ones.Will see better I suppose when new discs arrive but it's fractions i suppose!! This pad retaining clip as the rivet has just gone on one but it generally looks solid enough and reason I couldn't nut and bolt it? Thank you Johnnydog for your offer which I may well take up but will try all avenues first
Delphi LS1381 are the shoes? So I take you to mean that your old discs won't fit over the new shoes. So you need to back off the ribbed adjuster that sits between the two shoes at the top. Find the point where the disc just fits and then back off the adjusters a further half a turn. Make a note of which way you need to turn the adjuster to back-off. And don't assume that both sides are the same. Check!

A small nut and bolt is likely to come loose, fall off and jam in the disc vents or calliper. I suggest you use a welder.
Fixed.
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #71 on: 25 April 2020, 23:32:49 »

They're intended to be flexible anti-rattle springs as opposed to a rigid structure. Hence I'm not so sure about welding as a repair. You risk the metal losing it's springyness leading to fracturing beside the weld. That's probably why they were riveted in the first place.

Assuming the corrosion is not too bad, I'd prefer to drill out to sound metal and then use a new steel rivet, add washers to get more clamping area if needs be. Aluminium rivets might suffer rapid corrosion.
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #72 on: 26 April 2020, 09:39:11 »

How about stainless steel pop rivets 2.4mm seems about the smallest i can see?
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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #73 on: 26 April 2020, 10:35:53 »

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johnnydog

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #74 on: 26 April 2020, 13:10:16 »

From my experience, unless the handbrake shoes have come unbonded, or the linings are showing signs of cracking, I would never replace the shoes. They don't do a lot of work, and if you replace them with new, invariably the handbrake is relatively poor for sometime until the contact area of the new shoes 'beds in' to the contact face of disc as they only come into contact when the handbrake is applied, not like the pads of the primary brakes. This is compounded when new discs and handbrake shoes are fitted at the same time. The linings on the handbrake shoes aren't particularly thick, and sometimes the mistaken perception is that they are worn more than they actually are.
Of course a few trips up the road with the handbrake gently applied can accelerate the bedding in process, but the operation and contact of the shoes to the inboard face of the disc whilst moving doesn't prolong the life of the handbrake linings, and it can lead to bonded linings coming adrift. Rivited linings don't suffer this issue to the same degree.
A bit like the MOT tester yanking the handbrake on, rather than a very gentle application. I have had cars with similar handbrake set ups loose the lining because of this, which can then result in the rear disc locking up when the loose lining jams inside the disc.
So unless they are totally shot at, personally, I wouldn't change the handbrake shoes.
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