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[Lizzie Zoom]

So Putin has finally come away from describing the Ukraine business a Special Military Operation, and has announced a full mobalisation of his forces.

He has now made a clear threat to the West by stating they have many weapons, and a Russian Minister on television has stated they are now going to fight the war based on the fact that NATO forces are supporting that country.

The gloves are off, so tin hats on time!

The observers on all this are stating that Putin has put himself into a corner, failed to quickly win the conflict, has indeed lost ground previously taken, and is now asking the Russian public to support a big call up of conscripts, when it is believed there is little taste for a full on war.  There is even now talk that his regime could collapse with all this.  Let's hope so. A full revolution would resolve a lot of issues.  Ukraine would be spared any more suffering, the energy crisis could diminish, and the price of food could decrease as more is available to the markets, with the starving of this World getting some relief.

Big hopes, a lot of if's, but this could be the start of the end game.  As long as Western, UN, and NATO support does not falter for Ukraine, and our politicians make the right decisions we MAY get the results we all want without a nuclear conflict on a worldwide scale.

[Doctor Gollum]

The starving will always be starving.

The people you are referring to merely have less to consume. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[STEMO]

When you get right down to it, the west is not all that interested in Ukraine, and never was. But they are interested in keeping Russia in it's place, and Ukraine is a perfect opportunity to try and do this. While I have no kind of admiration for Putin, I can see where he is coming from. I said earlier in the thread that we should have tried to bring Russia along with us when the Soviet Union collapsed , treating them as a partner, rather than rubbing their noses in it. Since then NATO has expanded right up to Russia's border, and would have allowed Ukraine to join sooner or later.
Putin, in my opinion, is correct in his assumption that the west wouldn't have been happy until Russia was a spent force, posing no threat at all to our way of life.
If the cost of ending this war is giving him the territory he craves in eastern Ukraine, then so be it. Those who say he will push for more are mistaken, in my opinion, he wouldn't be stupid enough to invade any country that was part of NATO. He'll have his buffer on his western front, and will be able to crow about how great he and his country are. A small price to pay.
But, of course, in the court of public opinion, this compromise will make us look weak. So on we go, up to the brink but, hopefully, not beyond.

Stop worrying, Lizzie, you had your three score and ten. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

When you get right down to it, the west is not all that interested in Ukraine, and never was. But they are interested in keeping Russia in it's place, and Ukraine is a perfect opportunity to try and do this. While I have no kind of admiration for Putin, I can see where he is coming from. I said earlier in the thread that we should have tried to bring Russia along with us when the Soviet Union collapsed , treating them as a partner, rather than rubbing their noses in it. Since then NATO has expanded right up to Russia's border, and would have allowed Ukraine to join sooner or later.
Putin, in my opinion, is correct in his assumption that the west wouldn't have been happy until Russia was a spent force, posing no threat at all to our way of life.
If the cost of ending this war is giving him the territory he craves in eastern Ukraine, then so be it. Those who say he will push for more are mistaken, in my opinion, he wouldn't be stupid enough to invade any country that was part of NATO. He'll have his buffer on his western front, and will be able to crow about how great he and his country are. A small price to pay.
But, of course, in the court of public opinion, this compromise will make us look weak. So on we go, up to the brink but, hopefully, not beyond.

Stop worrying, Lizzie, you had your three score and ten. 

  Not quite with the final ten Steve.  That is next year!

As for Ukraine, they area a democratic country that has been invaded by a dictator.  The West must stand up and fight that situation, with a bully not being allowed to win.  We know what happens if we in the democratic West just sit back and let the aggressor win. It is painful, and it may get worse before it gets better, but Ukraine are in the position this country was once in.  Everything that can be legally done must be in my opinion.

However, I completely understand your point of view, and I must admit I do not want our armed forces suffering heavy casualties again at the behest of politicians and their failure to reach an agreement by other means.  History has told us how that ends;  not very well at all!

[STEMO]

I mean, do we really need inconsequential shit like this?

Putin threats: How many nuclear weapons does Russia have? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60564123

Let's put the shits right up the masses, whether it actually makes any difference or not. And while we're at it, let's get some ignorant nobodies to air their views on the six o'clock news. Percy Snodgrass lived in St Petersburg for six months in the nineties, no doubt his insight will be invaluable.

[Migalot]

As for Ukraine, they area a democratic country that has been invaded by a dictator.  The West must stand up and fight that situation, with a bully not being allowed to win.  We know what happens if we in the democratic West just sit back and let the aggressor win. It is painful, and it may get worse before it gets better, but Ukraine are in the position this country was once in.  Everything that can be legally done must be in my opinion.

However, I completely understand your point of view, and I must admit I do not want our armed forces suffering heavy casualties again at the behest of politicians and their failure to reach an agreement by other means.  History has told us how that ends;  not very well at all!

Zelensky banned eleven parties, including the Opposition Platform for Life, which was the largest among them with 44 seats in Ukraine’s 450-seat parliament. So who's a dictator now?

Nato has admitted that it has been planning this since 2014 (the date of the CIA-inspired coup).

The Minsk Accords (which were guaranteed jointly by France and Germany) have been ignored by Kiev and, in the 8-year shelling of the Donbass, some 14,500 Russian-speaking people, mostly civilians, have been killed.

There was an outline agreement to end hostilities early on in the war, but it was apparently scuppered by Johnson.

There is a huge Nazi contingent in Western Ukraine. In late August, Zelensky even posted an image on Instagram featuring a Ukrainian soldier wearing the patch of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, also known as the 1st Galician Division.

Given the foregoing, Russia's decision to launch the SMO should not be viewed as entirely unprovoked, in my view. 

[Raeturbo]

No, just to be clear, he has not authorised full mobilisation, just partial, 300,000👍

[Doctor Gollum]

No, just to be clear, he has not authorised full mobilisation, just partial, 300,000👍

That's alright then

Presumably there's only 300,000 willing volunteers... Or is it that they only have 150,000 bullets and rifles?

[Lizzie Zoom]

No, just to be clear, he has not authorised full mobilisation, just partial, 300,000👍

That's alright then

Presumably there's only 300,000 willing volunteers... Or is it that they only have 150,000 bullets and rifles?

Indeed, 300,000 is more than the whole of our armed forces. In total we have 158,000 personnel. So 300k is to me a full mobilisation, no matter how you cut it.  But that, as I said could be his downfall if the Russian public, behind the scenes, rebel.

But,whatever, That figure does not even include whatever else he brings into the war.  So false threat, or not, it just piles on the pressure which no one needs.

[Doctor Gollum]

Best pop over and tell him then.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Best pop over and tell him then.

Putin is not listening to anyone but his own mind

[Sir Tigger KC]

Apparently tickets for one way flights out of Russia to countries where Russians don't need visas sold out very quickly today and prices for those tickets going forward have rocketed.   

There's footage this evening on Twitter of a large anti war protest on Moscow's Arbat Street (equivalent of Oxford Street) with the Police (or maybe press gangs) dragging young men away... 

[Raeturbo]

Lizz, DG, there is a very real difference between partial and full mobilisation, with extremely dire outcomes. Obviously you were both taking the piss or too stupid to understand that

[Varche]

I bet the backroom gurus everywhere have ratshitted up the what if scenarios.

I would imagine dave the builder has been putting the finishing touches to his bunker. Ours is ready….

[Raeturbo]

I’ve got a good stock of alcohol, I won’t even notice it🔥