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[cem_devecioglu]

and the crappity smacking word censor is pissing me off

You are an Admin TB...you know what you could do!  

Always thought it stupid how bixch always comes up as ....pregnant dog  !!!!

means logging in fully (admins have 2 levels), and if i'm going to that effort, need to wait for loo-knee so i can knobble his postcount.....

I hope Loo-Knee tonight is busy outside

[cem_devecioglu]

very good point about computers in libraries.It exposes this for the vote catcher that it is,rather than a genuine desire to help the under - priviliged.
I believe that the welfare state should ensure everyone has a roof over their heads,warmth in winter and basic nutritional food . any thing over and above that should only be attained from gainful employment.
of course the exceptions to this should be pensioners,who have paid their dues,and those who are genuinely incapacitated.

 

[theolodian]

very good point about computers in libraries.It exposes this for the vote catcher that it is,rather than a genuine desire to help the under - priviliged.
I believe that the welfare state should ensure everyone has a roof over their heads,warmth in winter and basic nutritional food . any thing over and above that should only be attained from gainful employment.
of course the exceptions to this should be pensioners,who have paid their dues,and those who are genuinely incapacitated.

100% agree there --- use the money this is going to cost to make sure the basics are there --- or kids get books in school --- or bring back meals on wheels for pensioners -- or a 101 other more urgent projects !!!!!

The government is not legally required to do even that.

[Kevin Wood]

If we're going to hand out free computers let's have them in libraries and schools where:

1) Everybody can benefit from them
2) They will get looked after
3) They will be used by the intended recipient for the intended purpose and not flogged on ebay to pay for beer and fags.

 

.. of course the next thing will be that all these households with free computers will expect free broadband connections, and free electricity, and free software.

I'm with albitz. I don't want to see anyone freeze or starve, but if you want anything more than that in life, get off your @rse and earn it.

Kevin

[cem_devecioglu]

very good point about computers in libraries.It exposes this for the vote catcher that it is,rather than a genuine desire to help the under - priviliged.
I believe that the welfare state should ensure everyone has a roof over their heads,warmth in winter and basic nutritional food . any thing over and above that should only be attained from gainful employment.
of course the exceptions to this should be pensioners,who have paid their dues,and those who are genuinely incapacitated.

100% agree there --- use the money this is going to cost to make sure the basics are there --- or kids get books in school --- or bring back meals on wheels for pensioners -- or a 101 other more urgent projects !!!!!

The government is not legally required to do even that.

Sorry but for what reason we pay salary to governments and their workers if you dont let them do anything

[Mr Skrunts]

and the crappity smacking word censor is pissing me off

You are an Admin TB...you know what you could do!  

Always thought it stupid how bixch always comes up as ....pregnant dog  !!!!

means logging in fully (admins have 2 levels), and if i'm going to that effort, need to wait for loo-knee so i can knobble his postcount.....

Why do you need to wait for Loo-knee, do you need his permission to knobble his post count.

For oppss sake I thought you were "TheBoy"     (see what you mean about the WS :-/

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I have been following this thread closely as it touches on many political aspects of interest.

To enter this debate, stating that I understanding much of what has been said and why, and to give another angle on it, I will just add a few, probably yet again, contaversial points:

Our education system in the UK is NOT a meritocracy; the best most potentially talented pupils do not necessarily get to the top of the educational system and job 'pile', as what really counts is the money your family possess, their access to facalities for the child to enjoy such as a private bedroom with books unlimited, computer, etc, a good family 'environment' and the right connections, such as through a public / grammer school education.

If the UK is ever to achieve a situation whereby ALL children are given an opportunity to excell and reach their full potential, so that our country truely competes with the rest of the world, then ALL children, regardless of class backgound and culture must have full unhinderd access to a good, trouble free family environment, an unbiased educational system where just 'having money' does not count, computer facilities, and unlimited books, writing materials, along with any other needs.  In addition no child with potential should 'have' to leave school because their family require them to earn money asap.

The current Government have encouraged far greater numbers to attend university, which should be applauded, but only those with families who can afford the fees and the situation of them attending, actually can, and anyway by then the damage of their "family situation" / the established "system" has already been done.  This is not a meritocracy!

Issuing computers is one step towards the above goals by a so called "socialist" government, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what is really required; fully equal opportunities for all children in our society.  This initiative is a vote winning scam, will be wasted resource in so many cases because of the environmentally connected negatives already described and goes no where near achieving what should be a 'socialist' goal.

The aims I list are pie in the sky for at least the next 20 years?  Maybe!! But we, the citizens of Great Britain, have to start somewhere!

[LaserLance]

The yanks have got the right idea... 6 months workfair then if you wont get a job you get sod all !!!!to many spongers,  freeloaders and the long term useless in this country .ive worked all me life ,(well bar 10 montha when i was 21 when i got made redundent but i still never claimed dole as i had £5000 redundancy and had a long holiday) . but it peeves me that you get everything given to you if you claim your ill by swinging the lead ! people who really need it dont get what they should get , cos off all the skivers. time to cool down now as i got go to bed now early start in morning  

[Martin_1962]

Oh I have claimed plenty of benefits as I was long term unemployed about 24-20 years ago, I did community programme, job club, temporary work and car delivery driving, however I have paid a hell of a lot in tax since.

Eventually a computer course paid off

[sir moanalot]

i had a head injury in a bus garage (while i was a psv mot repair inspector) and decided to retrain in another field then got laid off 6 years ago from the job gained by that, and finally decided to go to a london college to retrain again to do what i do now.
i cannot understand why people choose to fester at home all day surviving on handouts and taking the p1ss ??

[TheBoy]

I have been following this thread closely as it touches on many political aspects of interest.

To enter this debate, stating that I understanding much of what has been said and why, and to give another angle on it, I will just add a few, probably yet again, contaversial points:

Our education system in the UK is NOT a meritocracy; the best most potentially talented pupils do not necessarily get to the top of the educational system and job 'pile', as what really counts is the money your family possess, their access to facalities for the child to enjoy such as a private bedroom with books unlimited, computer, etc, a good family 'environment' and the right connections, such as through a public / grammer school education.

If the UK is ever to achieve a situation whereby ALL children are given an opportunity to excell and reach their full potential, so that our country truely competes with the rest of the world, then ALL children, regardless of class backgound and culture must have full unhinderd access to a good, trouble free family environment, an unbiased educational system where just 'having money' does not count, computer facilities, and unlimited books, writing materials, along with any other needs.  In addition no child with potential should 'have' to leave school because their family require them to earn money asap.

The current Government have encouraged far greater numbers to attend university, which should be applauded, but only those with families who can afford the fees and the situation of them attending, actually can, and anyway by then the damage of their "family situation" / the established "system" has already been done.  This is not a meritocracy!

Issuing computers is one step towards the above goals by a so called "socialist" government, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what is really required; fully equal opportunities for all children in our society.  This initiative is a vote winning scam, will be wasted resource in so many cases because of the environmentally connected negatives already described and goes no where near achieving what should be a 'socialist' goal.

The aims I list are pie in the sky for at least the next 20 years?  Maybe!! But we, the citizens of Great Britain, have to start somewhere!

I am strongly against the current governments view that everyone should have degrees, simply its devaluing the qualification.

I also dont necessarily agree that kids with lazy parents should have their fees paid.  Further Education should be paid for by those benefitting from it, whether up front, or afterwards.


The key to sorting it is to get the lazy people into work.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I have been following this thread closely as it touches on many political aspects of interest.

To enter this debate, stating that I understanding much of what has been said and why, and to give another angle on it, I will just add a few, probably yet again, contaversial points:

Our education system in the UK is NOT a meritocracy; the best most potentially talented pupils do not necessarily get to the top of the educational system and job 'pile', as what really counts is the money your family possess, their access to facalities for the child to enjoy such as a private bedroom with books unlimited, computer, etc, a good family 'environment' and the right connections, such as through a public / grammer school education.

If the UK is ever to achieve a situation whereby ALL children are given an opportunity to excell and reach their full potential, so that our country truely competes with the rest of the world, then ALL children, regardless of class backgound and culture must have full unhinderd access to a good, trouble free family environment, an unbiased educational system where just 'having money' does not count, computer facilities, and unlimited books, writing materials, along with any other needs.  In addition no child with potential should 'have' to leave school because their family require them to earn money asap.

The current Government have encouraged far greater numbers to attend university, which should be applauded, but only those with families who can afford the fees and the situation of them attending, actually can, and anyway by then the damage of their "family situation" / the established "system" has already been done.  This is not a meritocracy!

Issuing computers is one step towards the above goals by a so called "socialist" government, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what is really required; fully equal opportunities for all children in our society.  This initiative is a vote winning scam, will be wasted resource in so many cases because of the environmentally connected negatives already described and goes no where near achieving what should be a 'socialist' goal.

The aims I list are pie in the sky for at least the next 20 years?  Maybe!! But we, the citizens of Great Britain, have to start somewhere!

I am strongly against the current governments view that everyone should have degrees, simply its devaluing the qualification.

I also dont necessarily agree that kids with lazy parents should have their fees paid.  Further Education should be paid for by those benefitting from it, whether up front, or afterwards.


The key to sorting it is to get the lazy people into work.

I agree with most, if not all of that TB.

But what I really was commenting on was the educational system from the age of five onwards; it should be a true meritocracy so we get the very best potential possible from all our children.  

[cem_devecioglu]

I have been following this thread closely as it touches on many political aspects of interest.

To enter this debate, stating that I understanding much of what has been said and why, and to give another angle on it, I will just add a few, probably yet again, contaversial points:

Our education system in the UK is NOT a meritocracy; the best most potentially talented pupils do not necessarily get to the top of the educational system and job 'pile', as what really counts is the money your family possess, their access to facalities for the child to enjoy such as a private bedroom with books unlimited, computer, etc, a good family 'environment' and the right connections, such as through a public / grammer school education.

If the UK is ever to achieve a situation whereby ALL children are given an opportunity to excell and reach their full potential, so that our country truely competes with the rest of the world, then ALL children, regardless of class backgound and culture must have full unhinderd access to a good, trouble free family environment, an unbiased educational system where just 'having money' does not count, computer facilities, and unlimited books, writing materials, along with any other needs.  In addition no child with potential should 'have' to leave school because their family require them to earn money asap.

The current Government have encouraged far greater numbers to attend university, which should be applauded, but only those with families who can afford the fees and the situation of them attending, actually can, and anyway by then the damage of their "family situation" / the established "system" has already been done.  This is not a meritocracy!

Issuing computers is one step towards the above goals by a so called "socialist" government, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what is really required; fully equal opportunities for all children in our society.  This initiative is a vote winning scam, will be wasted resource in so many cases because of the environmentally connected negatives already described and goes no where near achieving what should be a 'socialist' goal.

The aims I list are pie in the sky for at least the next 20 years?  Maybe!! But we, the citizens of Great Britain, have to start somewhere!

Lizzie your long writings are a university itself..

And there are too may to learn from you..

[Martin_1962]

I prefer the old get in if you are clever and get a grant.

My daughter is bright and has earned a place in a private school, we get most of the fees paid.

[Vamps]

I have been following this thread closely as it touches on many political aspects of interest.

To enter this debate, stating that I understanding much of what has been said and why, and to give another angle on it, I will just add a few, probably yet again, contaversial points:

Our education system in the UK is NOT a meritocracy; the best most potentially talented pupils do not necessarily get to the top of the educational system and job 'pile', as what really counts is the money your family possess, their access to facalities for the child to enjoy such as a private bedroom with books unlimited, computer, etc, a good family 'environment' and the right connections, such as through a public / grammer school education.

If the UK is ever to achieve a situation whereby ALL children are given an opportunity to excell and reach their full potential, so that our country truely competes with the rest of the world, then ALL children, regardless of class backgound and culture must have full unhinderd access to a good, trouble free family environment, an unbiased educational system where just 'having money' does not count, computer facilities, and unlimited books, writing materials, along with any other needs.  In addition no child with potential should 'have' to leave school because their family require them to earn money asap.

The current Government have encouraged far greater numbers to attend university, which should be applauded, but only those with families who can afford the fees and the situation of them attending, actually can, and anyway by then the damage of their "family situation" / the established "system" has already been done.  This is not a meritocracy!

Issuing computers is one step towards the above goals by a so called "socialist" government, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to what is really required; fully equal opportunities for all children in our society.  This initiative is a vote winning scam, will be wasted resource in so many cases because of the environmentally connected negatives already described and goes no where near achieving what should be a 'socialist' goal.

The aims I list are pie in the sky for at least the next 20 years?  Maybe!! But we, the citizens of Great Britain, have to start somewhere!

I am strongly against the current governments view that everyone should have degrees, simply its devaluing the qualification.
I also dont necessarily agree that kids with lazy parents should have their fees paid.  Further Education should be paid for by those benefitting from it, whether up front, or afterwards.


The key to sorting it is to get the lazy people into work.

I think that there is too much onus on academic qualifications and not enough ‘practical training’ for those who are less academically but mote practically minded.