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[albitz]

Who decides who is innocent though,Governments can and do decide that people who disagree with them are criminals and have them imprisoned .
would you trust this and every future government to only have laws which punish the obviously immoral criminal elements The freedom of the individual has historically and rightly been a very precious thing to the British.much blood has been spilt in the battle to preserve this right and we should never let ourselves s;eepwalk our way into the type of society were the level of freedom is deceided by the chancers and liars who inhabit westminster.
Rant over (again)  

[Ken T]

Trouble is there was over 100 murderers tracked down thanks to this data. Thats 100 less people who are likely to kill again on the streets.

Ken

[Andy B]

I'm with albitz. I wouldn't trust this or any other goverment with details of my DNA ....... whether innocent or not.

[Andy B]

Trouble is there was over 100 murderers tracked down thanks to this data. Thats 100 less people who are likely to kill again on the streets.

Ken

agreed. And it took many years for them to catch the murderer of Shirley Leach (local murder victim) who was stopped & arrested for a motoring offence. But I still don't want my DNA on a gov date base 'just in case'

[albitz]

We will never know wether they would have been caught by other methods.But we do know from looking at various countries around the world in the last 50 years or so what happens when you let your politicians take your freedom away "in your best interests.
Of course people who are arrested for serious crimes should have DNA taken to prove guilt or eliminate them from enquiries,but people who are found innocent or not even taken to court should not have DNA and figerprints held forever on a government database in a free society.
rant over didnt last very long.  

[bikers1]

er, unlike Americans who are citizens of a country with a consitution we are subjects of the state, and are 'allowed' such freedoms as the state deems fit

My problem isn't with holding DNA records it's with the outsourced private sector profiteers who run the database, believe me, some little 2 rupee a week programmer in Mumbai misses a digit in a bit of SQL code and you could be having your collar felt....

Computer says ... it was you !!!, computers don't make mistakes... but humans do

Have you ever seen the movie Brazil ?  

[Entwood]

We will never know wether they would have been caught by other methods.But we do know from looking at various countries around the world in the last 50 years or so what happens when you let your politicians take your freedom away "in your best interests.
Of course people who are arrested for serious crimes should have DNA taken to prove guilt or eliminate them from enquiries,but people who are found innocent or not even taken to court should not have DNA and figerprints held forever on a government database in a free society.
rant over didnt last very long.  

Why not ?? You give them your address, telephone number, date of birth, they give you your NI number, Birth certificate, Tax code.

Banks, building societies, Post Office, Insurance, all have access to your credit records, you agree to passwords with numerous sites and businesses.

You can't get your own money without a card and PIN

But something that could actually HELP society, DNA & fingerprints, is  rejected as "taking away freedom ?? "

b*****ks comes to mind ..  

[Ken T]

trouble is they say a lot of innocent people are on the data base. Well its not so much proved innocent, its more the case was not water tight and I understand the CPS don't waste their time on minor cases or ones they might loose.

I agree the worry about the clowns in government misusing data is ever present, along with the wholly inadequate sentences handed out. Perhaps the whole system needs overhaul, from the judges to the prisons, to punishments. There have been words passed about the police recently; they can only do as well as they can with the tools at their disposal. If they're short of resources their service will be limited, as long as they have to do the mountain of paperwork for each case.

There are so many things we could do to improve things, how about pubs/clubs supplying buses for their clients. I think society needs a giant shake up, put some values back. Perhaps we could get Lizzie Zoom to write one of her essays on it !.

Ken

[albitz]

Its a big step too far and imo it wont stop there.
And if I had my way I wouldnt have all the pin number stuff etc; but we are left with very little choice.
Actually pin numbers for bank cards are a good example,we were told that this would make it very difficult for the bad guys to steal our money etc; the reality has turned out to be that bank fraud is rampant and no one seems to be able to do much about it. Meanwhile every big organisation from Tescos to the Government hold loads of data on us by tracking what we do with our our numbers.
And, if anyone can look back over the last ten years and tell me that this government is in any way serious about tackling crime I will say that they are talking 'dangle berries'.
The only thing they are serious about is power for its own sake.

[Andy B]

trouble is they say a lot of innocent people are on the data base. Well its not so much proved innocent, its more the case was not water tight ........

So, what you are saying that if even you were taken to court for something & was proved innocent, the very fact you were in court means that you were probably a little bit guilty anyway .....  :-?

[albitz]

trouble is they say a lot of innocent people are on the data base. Well its not so much proved innocent, its more the case was not water tight ........

So, what you are saying that if even you were taken to court for something & was proved innocent, the very fact you were in court means that you were probably a little bit guilty anyway .....  :-?

You dont even need to be taken to court,as things stand, anyone who is arrested has DNA and fingerprints taken and it is put on the government database and kept for life
We are the only country in Europe who does this afaik and yet we almost certainly have the worst crimerecord (and rising) so it isnt working.
there always have been and always will be people who commit serious crime and are clever enough to get away with it.
It may be more to do with the fact that quite a few prominent new labour figures were card carrying members of the communist party before they discovered Savile Row tailors.

[Ken T]

No, what I am saying is some people who appeared guilty were never taken to court because there was a small bit of doubt. The police seem reticent to pursue some actions because you don't have cast iron proof of the culprit. If there was a spate of burglaries with evidence of tools being used, and they caught someone with a boot full of tools it would look suspicious. However if he were a builder by trade, and there was no stolen stuff in his car they couldn't do anything. The fact that the stolen stuff was in his mates car, if they couldn't link the 2 there would be no case, and the old money question would happen, if the value of goods nicked was below a certain value, it would cost too much to persue the case beyond a certain level, so it would be dropped.

Thats life, currently.

Ken

[Martin_1962]

The DNA record is not a complete listing but a checksum - the checksum is NOT unique.

It is being polluted with people who should not be on it.

It is getting more work to find the guilty from it.

DNA can be planted as well - there is a campaign to do this with Wacquie Jacquie.

[Martin_1962]

Another thing

You go on the DB unworried.

You have a slightly odd hobby - lets say photography.

Goverment bans it.

Do you carry on?

[albitz]

Or being interested in old cars which dont hug many trees.