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[TheBoy]

I note with interest that the US are sitting on the fence.....cant think why!  

Despite Isreal being a strategically important ally in the Middle East, the yankee authorities wouldn't want to piss off the OPEC nations....

[Nickbat]

Problem is, long years before those rockets Israel invade their land..

Sorry for taking just one part of your post.

The counter argument to that is that the formation of Palestine was an invasion of Jewish lands.  Unless the history can be put aside, there will never be peace there...

That land has belonged to so many different peoples that nobody/everybody has a valid claim to it.

Couldn't agree more. The past is irrelevant. What matters now is the mutual security of both Israel and Palestine. Time for people to move on.  

[cem_devecioglu]

I note with interest that the US are sitting on the fence.....cant think why!  

Despite Isreal being a strategically important ally in the Middle East, the yankee authorities wouldn't want to piss off the OPEC nations....

Israel is more than an ally..

they are directly effecting the congressmen and president elections..

most banks -including FEDERAL RESERVE BANK - is owned (some partially) by jewish..

Intelligency agencies are nearly married

so can easily say Israel is half America..


and guess who killed Kennedy

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks greatly for all your opinions and observations, along with your voting in the poll.

This will prove very useful to me in my Political discussions and work at uni.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Thanks greatly for all your opinions and observations, along with your voting in the poll.

This will prove very useful to me in my Political discussions and work at uni.

I would be interested in your opinion of the conflict Lizzie.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks greatly for all your opinions and observations, along with your voting in the poll.

This will prove very useful to me in my Political discussions and work at uni.

I would be interested in your opinion of the conflict Lizzie.

I knew somebody would raise that question with me eventually!!

As I stated when I started this thread, this is a very deep long standing historical and political issue in this part that has suffered so much strife and conflict seemingly over the last 2000 year plus that Jesus was recorded on commenting on, and predicted it would last, at least in respect of Jerusalem until Judgment Day!

It is so embedded in the religious, political power, and yes land grabbing emotions of all sides, that no one I believe can possibly come up with a simple solution, unless they are God / Allah.

Your early post to the thread Optimist came very close, in my humble opinion, to being a precise summary on the current situation, which I was very interested to see Cem agreeing with.    

It has been also stated, I believe correctly, that this is, and probably always has been, far more than a religious conflict between Christians and Muslims, although both have had their extremists and "crusades" to convert the other!!  I am in no way a theologian, but I have read both Holy Books, The Bible and an English translation of the Koran. As I understand it from my readings, and please would any of my Muslim brothers and sisters please correct me if I am wrong, but both Jesus (d. c33AD) and Mohamed (d.632AD) both preached love and forgiveness between men, and stressed killing another man was a sin. A point continually stressed by Islamic clerics and Christian leaders when discussing all the world's "religious" conflicts.  

Therefore I believe, as others have stated, this latest conflict, and most previous ones, cannot be connected to religion, but instead due to land grabbing power politics, which on one side (Hammas) want the "Total eradication of Israel", and on the other (Israeli) the total security of their homeland, its people and way of life, but without Palestine / Arab influence anywhere, including of course Jerusalem.

God / Allah will eventually bring peace to the World, and especially the poor Middle East who's conflicts go back so far to at least pre-Roman times.  None of us surely have the answer to the whole situation in this, or any part of the troubled World, and I believe that all we can do is pray for the eventual peace, love and understanding that both Jesus and Mohamed preached.

[albitz]

Hamas have sent over 6000 rockets/missiles into Isreal in the last 7 years,while the Isrealis have excersised (by their standards at least) a lot of restraint.A similar scenario would have been during the Northern Ireland troubles for the government of the Repuplic of Ireland to have authorised their armed forces to fire thousands of rockets into the UK.
There was a truce in recent months and Hamas stated before it was due to expire that they had no interest in renewing the truce.They then commenced firing 80 rockets per day into southern Israel.
We didnt see Alexie (bolshy)Sayle and his champagne socialist buddies protesting in trafalgar square then did we ?
Israel is surrounded by nations who do not recognise its right to exist,despite the fact that the international community has done so for over half a century,and many of these peoples would like to see it and all its inhabitants wiped off the map.
In these circumstances Isreal usually meets fire with fire and Hamas must have known that this would happen at some point,the only war they can win is the propoganda war and they are well aware of this.They are using the people of gaza as pawns in their game .Its just such a shame that it is always the innocent civilians who suffer in these situations. just my tuppence woth,etc;

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Hamas have sent over 6000 rockets/missiles into Isreal in the last 7 years,while the Isrealis have excersised (by their standards at least) a lot of restraint.A similar scenario would have been during the Northern Ireland troubles for the government of the Repuplic of Ireland to have authorised their armed forces to fire thousands of rockets into the UK.
There was a truce in recent months and Hamas stated before it was due to expire that they had no interest in renewing the truce.They then commenced firing 80 rockets per day into southern Israel.
We didnt see Alexie (bolshy)Sayle and his champagne socialist buddies protesting in trafalgar square then did we ?
Israel is surrounded by nations who do not recognise its right to exist,despite the fact that the international community has done so for over half a century,and many of these peoples would like to see it and all its inhabitants wiped off the map.
In these circumstances Isreal usually meets fire with fire and Hamas must have known that this would happen at some point,the only war they can win is the propoganda war and they are well aware of this.They are using the people of gaza as pawns in their game .Its just such a shame that it is always the innocent civilians who suffer in these situations. just my tuppence woth,etc;

Yep, another good summary of the existing situation.

Just a pity the two sides cannot sit down and get beyond the historical tit for tat politics and finally sort their differences out for the point you correctly make Albitz; the sake of the innocent people of both countries.

[TheBoy]

Hamas have sent over 6000 rockets/missiles into Isreal in the last 7 years,while the Isrealis have excersised (by their standards at least) a lot of restraint.A similar scenario would have been during the Northern Ireland troubles for the government of the Repuplic of Ireland to have authorised their armed forces to fire thousands of rockets into the UK.
There was a truce in recent months and Hamas stated before it was due to expire that they had no interest in renewing the truce.They then commenced firing 80 rockets per day into southern Israel.
We didnt see Alexie (bolshy)Sayle and his champagne socialist buddies protesting in trafalgar square then did we ?
Israel is surrounded by nations who do not recognise its right to exist,despite the fact that the international community has done so for over half a century,and many of these peoples would like to see it and all its inhabitants wiped off the map.
In these circumstances Isreal usually meets fire with fire and Hamas must have known that this would happen at some point,the only war they can win is the propoganda war and they are well aware of this.They are using the people of gaza as pawns in their game .Its just such a shame that it is always the innocent civilians who suffer in these situations. just my tuppence woth,etc;

Yep, another good summary of the existing situation.

Just a pity the two sides cannot sit down and get beyond the historical tit for tat politics and finally sort their differences out for the point you correctly make Albitz; the sake of the innocent people of both countries.

How can they when neither side can tolerate the other side existing...

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Hamas have sent over 6000 rockets/missiles into Isreal in the last 7 years,while the Isrealis have excersised (by their standards at least) a lot of restraint.A similar scenario would have been during the Northern Ireland troubles for the government of the Repuplic of Ireland to have authorised their armed forces to fire thousands of rockets into the UK.
There was a truce in recent months and Hamas stated before it was due to expire that they had no interest in renewing the truce.They then commenced firing 80 rockets per day into southern Israel.
We didnt see Alexie (bolshy)Sayle and his champagne socialist buddies protesting in trafalgar square then did we ?
Israel is surrounded by nations who do not recognise its right to exist,despite the fact that the international community has done so for over half a century,and many of these peoples would like to see it and all its inhabitants wiped off the map.
In these circumstances Isreal usually meets fire with fire and Hamas must have known that this would happen at some point,the only war they can win is the propoganda war and they are well aware of this.They are using the people of gaza as pawns in their game .Its just such a shame that it is always the innocent civilians who suffer in these situations. just my tuppence woth,etc;

Yep, another good summary of the existing situation.

Just a pity the two sides cannot sit down and get beyond the historical tit for tat politics and finally sort their differences out for the point you correctly make Albitz; the sake of the innocent people of both countries.

How can they when neither side can tolerate the other side existing...

Yes TB, and that about totally sums the subject up! 8-) 8-)

[albitz]

In my experience,including growing up in Belfast and travelling to various countries,including Israel,most people just want to get on with earning a living and generally getting on with day to day life and will,if reasonably possible get on with their neighbours no matter who they are.But there is always a trouble making minority element with their own agenda who spoil things for everyone.

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm afraid most of TV channels and newspapers can not or dont reflect actually whats happening there..Reason is obvious..

And here I see ideas and views some are very close to the reality and some are far..no offense meant..

I must state that if the situation was reverse and Israel Lands was

 under invasion and israel civils are destroyed in mass like Palestinians

no doubt I would defend them like everybody did during Nazi holocaust..

I believe no matter a persons religion is, nobody cant defence a nations destruction..  

The difference between them is Palestinians are fighting for their EXISTENCE and land where Israel is for more land..

But to my surprise, holocaust now is done by jews which suffered the same..

And now Israel is saying they are defending their country against Hamas rockets..    Thats a lie with a long tail..

Hamas is a result which they created by their violence..

I will finish with a saying from my language translated:

You plant wind , you harvest storm..

Rant over..

[feeutfo]

ultimately, forget whats gone before, the palastinians will achieve nothing with rocket attacks. How can that possibly achieve anything but misery for its own people? They sign their own death warrant. Madness, cluster bombs(?) and all.

Can anyone explane this "tac tic" to me?

[cem_devecioglu]

ultimately, forget whats gone before, the palastinians will achieve nothing with rocket attacks. How can that possibly achieve anything but misery for its own people? They sign their own death warrant. Madness, cluster bombs(?) and all.

Can anyone explane this "tac tic" to me?

The keyword is "safety".. Israel citizens can never feel this anywhere ..

thats a big price thay have to pay..