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[crazyjoetavola]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

Really!! Nick how could you say that?

[Nickbat]

Most Greenies think that Big Oil is behind all these doubts over Gore's Global Warming scam. A little investigation reveals that Enron and others actually had a great deal to do with promoting the idea (...to make more bucks, of course).

I recommend this article, published a few days ago:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2009/05/29/lawrence-solomon-enron-s-other-secret.aspx 

[Banjax]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

[crazyjoetavola]

Actually Nick the question posed in my previous reply is rather easy to answer.............

The IPCC is currently starting to outline its Fifth Assessment Report (AR5) which will be finalized in 2014. As it has been the case in the past, the outline of the AR5 will be developed through a scoping process which involves climate change experts from all relevant disciplines and users of IPCC reports, in particular representatives from governments. As a first step, experts, governments and organizations involved in the Fourth Assessment Report have been asked to submit comments and observations in writing. These submissions are currently being analysed by members of the Bureau. The scoping meeting to define the outline of the AR5 is scheduled in Venice, Italy, for 13-17 July 2009 (attendance is by invitation only). The outline will be submitted to the 31st Session of the IPCC and Sessions of the three Working Groups, which will be held in Bali, Indonesia, 26-29 October 2009.

You can rest assured that there won't be even the slightest hint of a contrary opinion heard at that gathering

Main text  presently appears on IPCC website.

http://www.ipcc.ch/

[crazyjoetavola]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

You are correct inthe first part Sir and you are correct in the second   We are presently experiencing a clusterf--k to near oblivion

[Nickbat]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

[Banjax]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

hope you're right nickbat - i won't argue with you - just seems to me that we've been dancing round the problem for 20 odd years - its not gonna get fixed - i believe there is a problem and its too late to fix it - you believe theres no problem - either way all we can do is put on the shades - sit back and drink beer 

[crazyjoetavola]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

The real tipping point in question Nick is where any form of objective assessment of the supposed science, has long since evaporated due to so much prejudicial information being released,  often with an agenda, to deliberately confuse the issue

[crazyjoetavola]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

hope you're right nickbat - i won't argue with you - just seems to me that we've been dancing round the problem for 20 odd years - its not gonna get fixed - i believe there is a problem and its too late to fix it - you believe theres no problem - either way all we can do is put on the shades - sit back and drink beer 

Is there room for one more in that august group?

[Banjax]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

The real tipping point in question Nick is where any form of objective assessment of the supposed science, has long since evaporated due to so much prejudicial information being released,  often with an agenda, to deliberately confuse the issue

yep, Zulu - its almost impossible to find an unbiased opinion (and i've tried) 

[Nickbat]

ahh - the Heartland Institute and FOX news - two more balanced, scientific and august bodies it would be impossible to find 

More balanced than the IPCC. 

the trouble with the IPCC isn't balance - it's the lack of will on the part of big business (and therefore governments) to act before it's too late...my view is that it is already way past the tipping point - we're all standing outside arguing over which movie to watch....without realising the cinema closed years ago
 

There isn't a tipping point.

The tipping point theory is based on positive feedback mechanisms in computer models (GCMs). In the real world, there is no scientific evidence for positive feedbacks; indeed, some have argued that CO2 may actually cause negative feedbacks.

If CO2-based positive feedback was true, the world would have boiled away ages ago when CO2 levels were much higher.

Tipping points don't exist, but they sure as hell frighten those who don't investigate the science... which, of course, is the whole point. 

hope you're right nickbat - i won't argue with you - just seems to me that we've been dancing round the problem for 20 odd years - its not gonna get fixed - i believe there is a problem and its too late to fix it - you believe theres no problem - either way all we can do is put on the shades - sit back and drink beer 

Is there room for one more in that august group?

Make that two! 8-)

[crazyjoetavola]

All the concerns expressed over atmospheric Co2 levels may well amount to naught as other more serious factors begin to take precedence in the concern over this planets future. 

The cyclic nature solar activity, in its increased form, may well result in a much more deadly threat to this planet's atmosphere. :-/ :-/

[MikeDundee]

Never really beleived what they were originally blaming it on anyway  ....it was only a matter of time before the truth was really reported, but how much publicity will this recieve, and I doubt this will mean long haul flight taxes of £145 per flight will be reduced or car tax for larger cars

[Martin_1962]

Should be one rate of car tax for all cars.

It should be down to usage and economy, ie fuel tax not a fixed rate.

[Martin_1962]

Problem is simple

Global Warming seems believable
Global Cooling seems believable

All the scientists are being asked to prove one or the other.

Where is the independant research?