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[Nickbat]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, it's that wretched Nickbat droning on again, I hear you say.

But read this and consider.

In essence, President Obama decided to push the US Environmental Protection Agency to list CO2 as a dangerous pollutant (which, of course, it isn't). It will tie the US to crippling emissions cuts which many have said will cause the country's economy to tank. Note that China and Russia have refused to cut CO2 emissions. Note also that the UK economy is closely tied to that of the US.

The EPA decided to allow the public to comment before they went ahead with this plan and the deadline was yesterday (or maybe the day before, I can't remember exactly) and many, many people submitted their views.

The only trouble is that a leaked email, dated March, shows that not only was internal dissent squashed, but that the decision to go ahead with listing had already been taken. So the public consultation exercise was a complete scam.

http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/epa-suppresses-dissent-and-opinion-and.html

It has caused widespread dismay, but the mainstream media will no doubt laud the expected passing of the Waxman-Markey Bill in the US Congress tomorrow, which many respected thinkers reckon will effectively kill off the US economy.

I know, I know, you don't really care. I believe you should.

I reckon that this week could go down in history as the time that the US attempted economic suicide. 

Can anyone speak Mandarin? 

[BERTIECBX550]

Yep i can speak fluent mandarin and it goes like this I`ll have a number 33,27,89,56 please....Oh and 2 cans of coke as well please.....

[Banjax]

morning nickbat - won't argue over the rights and wrongs of greenhouse gas/climate change, etc - but just to pick up a small point - CO2 is highly toxic - now - i'd have to look it up (which it's too early to do) but i remember thousands people dying in Africa 20yrs ago through CO2 poisoning - it was a lake with a volcano under it - released a load of CO2 and wiped out a whole community 

not relevant to the debate really - but interesting all the same

as far as sneaking this emissions reduction through, Obama stated openly in the election he was committed to reduce CO2 emissions, so he's just following through on a promise (unlike most politicians )

[Banjax]

ok - i couldnt rest, Lake Nyos it was 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos

terrible tragedy - 1700 people, along with twice as many livestock were suffocated 

completely natural disaster tho, not man-made - just FYI

[cem_devecioglu]

Good morning Nickbat.. I always read your threads with a high interest

Now after reading this I stop and think,

before taking actions I'm sure Obama take the whispers from the "advisors" which can be translated that they are planning to earn extra money and they have their precautions..

and asking to the masses as usual is a show..

[Omega man 2]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, it's that wretched Nickbat droning on again, I hear you say. :-[

But read this and consider.

In essence, President Obama decided to push the US Environmental Protection Agency to list CO2 as a dangerous pollutant (which, of course, it isn't). It will tie the US to crippling emissions cuts which many have said will cause the country's economy to tank. Note that China and Russia have refused to cut CO2 emissions. Note also that the UK economy is closely tied to that of the US.

The EPA decided to allow the public to comment before they went ahead with this plan and the deadline was yesterday (or maybe the day before, I can't remember exactly) and many, many people submitted their views.

The only trouble is that a leaked email, dated March, shows that not only was internal dissent squashed, but that the decision to go ahead with listing had already been taken. So the public consultation exercise was a complete scam. >:(

http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/epa-suppresses-dissent-and-opinion-and.html

It has caused widespread dismay, but the mainstream media will no doubt laud the expected passing of the Waxman-Markey Bill in the US Congress tomorrow, which many respected thinkers reckon will effectively kill off the US economy.

I know, I know, you don't really care. I believe you should.

I reckon that this week could go down in history as the time that the US attempted economic suicide.  >:(

Can anyone speak Mandarin?  ;)
 

Definition of pollutant "A pollutant is a waste material that pollutes air, water or soil."

I wonder exactly how the U.S government could earn out of this (thats what it's all about anyway)

[Kevin Wood]

What muppets! CO2 is only dangerous in the same way as water is. If you have an abundance of it such that there is no oxygen to breathe it can cause a few issues, but is there a substance in existence for which that isn't true?

How do Coca Cola get away with selling soft drinks containing "dangerous pollutants"?

.. and it seems they take the same view of consultations as our government do. It's a box they have to tick on their "ram it through regardless" form. I've lost count of the number of consultations I've responded to, normally because one or other of my pastimes is about to be shafted. Never does any good.

Kevin

[tunnie]

can we have a new sleeping smiley please? 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, it's that wretched Nickbat droning on again, I hear you say.

But read this and consider.

In essence, President Obama decided to push the US Environmental Protection Agency to list CO2 as a dangerous pollutant (which, of course, it isn't). It will tie the US to crippling emissions cuts which many have said will cause the country's economy to tank. Note that China and Russia have refused to cut CO2 emissions. Note also that the UK economy is closely tied to that of the US.

The EPA decided to allow the public to comment before they went ahead with this plan and the deadline was yesterday (or maybe the day before, I can't remember exactly) and many, many people submitted their views.

The only trouble is that a leaked email, dated March, shows that not only was internal dissent squashed, but that the decision to go ahead with listing had already been taken. So the public consultation exercise was a complete scam.

http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/epa-suppresses-dissent-and-opinion-and.html

It has caused widespread dismay, but the mainstream media will no doubt laud the expected passing of the Waxman-Markey Bill in the US Congress tomorrow, which many respected thinkers reckon will effectively kill off the US economy.

I know, I know, you don't really care. I believe you should.

I reckon that this week could go down in history as the time that the US attempted economic suicide. 

Can anyone speak Mandarin? 
 

Not at all Nick, as you bring many great debating issues to light which otherwise many of us would never see!    Like me you love political discussion, and that may make others terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, but never me!!   Keep them coming! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

As for the USA, I am a great supporter of the belief that for all our sakes we require an economically, politically, and militarily strong United States of America.  They help maintain western democracy by providing that all important defensive shield over Europe, which yes is primarily for America's benefit, but which has let us all live relatively worry free for over 60 years.

If the USA's 'empire' collaspses and they have to pull out of their world policing role, it will be a repeat of when the Western Roman empire started to collapse in the late 4th and early 5th centuries.  Unless we start rebuilding Britain's military capacity up to the 'two power standard' of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, then we will be unable to hold back our enemies with a type of Dark Ages descending!

In short we require a strong USA to under pin our economy and way of life!! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)  Long live the United States of America

[crazyjoetavola]

Along these lines Ms Zoom?


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1NR2K-gazo&feature=related[/media]

[Chris_H]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, it's that wretched Nickbat droning on again, I hear you say.

But read this and consider.

In essence, President Obama decided to push the US Environmental Protection Agency to list CO2 as a dangerous pollutant (which, of course, it isn't). It will tie the US to crippling emissions cuts which many have said will cause the country's economy to tank. Note that China and Russia have refused to cut CO2 emissions. Note also that the UK economy is closely tied to that of the US.

The EPA decided to allow the public to comment before they went ahead with this plan and the deadline was yesterday (or maybe the day before, I can't remember exactly) and many, many people submitted their views.

The only trouble is that a leaked email, dated March, shows that not only was internal dissent squashed, but that the decision to go ahead with listing had already been taken. So the public consultation exercise was a complete scam.

http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/epa-suppresses-dissent-and-opinion-and.html

It has caused widespread dismay, but the mainstream media will no doubt laud the expected passing of the Waxman-Markey Bill in the US Congress tomorrow, which many respected thinkers reckon will effectively kill off the US economy.

I know, I know, you don't really care. I believe you should.

I reckon that this week could go down in history as the time that the US attempted economic suicide. 

Can anyone speak Mandarin? 
 

There's no way I am going to read all that is on that site; the name puts me off immediately.  Anyone who says they 'love' carbon dioxide has to be unbalanced.

To take one part of a quotation...

...To be anti-carbon is to be anti-life and anti-human". - Viv Forbes, Pasture Manager, Soil Scientist and Geologist

That is a very emotive statement and I think a dis-service to any intelligent discussion.

In any feedback system, the system 'opposes' a parameter that has got out of tolerable range - so our power steering 'opposes' turning right when the wheels are being asked to point left.  Similarly people are 'opposing' carbon dioxide generation while they think it is too prolific (or destined to be too prolific).  That is not an unqualified opposition to carbon as is implied in the statement above.  President Obama has obviously taken seriously the evidence that CO2 levels are rising too fast, and to the extent that he will trade part of the USA's economy for the 'greater good'.  It  is an altruistic gamble in that (if he's right) he stands to save the competition (China & India) without them risking their economies in the same way.

The simple (?) feedback system for global CO2 is that when the levels increase, so does the forestation and a new equilibrium is achieved.  We are preventing the reforestation by annihilating it so the primary feedback mechanism is being crippled.

I happen to think he is on the right track at present on this issue.

[Chris_H]

Along these lines Ms Zoom?


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1NR2K-gazo&feature=related[/media]

How did your cat play that with one paw?

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Along these lines Ms Zoom?


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1NR2K-gazo&feature=related[/media]

Lovely Zulu, I had tears in my eyes listening to that, with my hand over my heart, remembering my American friends, one of whom has passed away, and the great times I had with the real American people in the center of the United States

As you probably can tell I am very pro-America after being in contact with Americans most of my life, and in another existance would proudly be a United States citizen   Difficult thing really as I am proud to be British.......and have Maltese roots......along with my love of the USA!!

[crazyjoetavola]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, it's that wretched Nickbat droning on again, I hear you say.

But read this and consider.

In essence, President Obama decided to push the US Environmental Protection Agency to list CO2 as a dangerous pollutant (which, of course, it isn't). It will tie the US to crippling emissions cuts which many have said will cause the country's economy to tank. Note that China and Russia have refused to cut CO2 emissions. Note also that the UK economy is closely tied to that of the US.

The EPA decided to allow the public to comment before they went ahead with this plan and the deadline was yesterday (or maybe the day before, I can't remember exactly) and many, many people submitted their views.

The only trouble is that a leaked email, dated March, shows that not only was internal dissent squashed, but that the decision to go ahead with listing had already been taken. So the public consultation exercise was a complete scam.

http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/06/epa-suppresses-dissent-and-opinion-and.html

It has caused widespread dismay, but the mainstream media will no doubt laud the expected passing of the Waxman-Markey Bill in the US Congress tomorrow, which many respected thinkers reckon will effectively kill off the US economy.

I know, I know, you don't really care. I believe you should.

I reckon that this week could go down in history as the time that the US attempted economic suicide. 

Can anyone speak Mandarin? 
 

Yes, you're a very naughty Nickbat [smiley=evil.gif] but the contribution you make here is immeasurable - it's one of the many things that make this forum matter much more than the content of its primary brief.

There is indeed an indication that the lust to appear to be in the driving seat concerning climate change will have some effect on the economic profile of those countries that deem it worth implementing.  It seems to be a rather binary debate to me.  Common sense has kicked into the gutter.


The willingness of the media to be spoon-fed such information doesn’t surprise me in the least.  Most of the interaction between the legislature and those who are charged with dissemination the information offered seems to be based on the slickness of its presentation alone. 

That's a bad thing - but it seems to be the way that good hard-nosed reporting on these and other important matters is being elbowed to one side in favour of this wholly disingenuous, chummy approach.

It's bare-faced manipulation of the media in short.

[crazyjoetavola]

Good morning Nickbat.. I always read your threads with a high interest

Now after reading this I stop and think,

before taking actions I'm sure Obama take the whispers from the "advisors" which can be translated that they are planning to earn extra money and they have their precautions..

and asking to the masses as usual is a show..

............once again cem makes an important point