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[Lioned]

Cows are bad for us ? A little more 'food' for thought on the 'peak' food debate.

The complex and overlooked relationship between population/food/oil........

The modern factory farming system is a prolific consumer of fossil fuel and a prolific producer of poisonous wastes. Up to 100,000 animals are herded together on huge feedlots. These animals do not graze on grass, as picture books tell us; they can’t graze at all. Feedlots are crowded, filthy, stinking places with open sewers, unpaved roads and choking air. The animals would not survive at all but for the fact that they are fed huge amounts of antibiotics. It is now conceded that the antibiotics fed to cattle are the main cause of antibiotic resistance in people, as the bacteria constantly in these environments evolve to survive them. The cattle are fed prodigious quantities of corn. At a feedlot of a mere 37,000 cows, 25 tons of corn are dumped every hour. It takes 1.2 gallons of oil to make the fertilizer used for each bushel of that corn. Before a cow is slaughtered, she will eat 25 pounds of corn a day; by the time she is slaughtered she will weigh more than 1,200 pounds. In her lifetime she will have consumed, in effect, 284 gallons of oil. Today’s factory-raised cow is not a solar-powered ruminant but another fossil fuel machine.
Part of the deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is due to large soybean plantations that are growing on former forest lands. But these soybeans are not going to feed vegetarians seeking meat-free alternatives - most of the world soybean crop goes to farm animals, not to feed people.

Think about that next time you go to mcdonalds ! And when the price of oil rises yet again you can blame that big fat heffer..How many starving people could live on the grain it took to produce that T bone ?

The world will have to change its eating habits if we want to feed the growing population.

[Martin_1962]

Sounds like 'dangle berries' to me.

Antibiotics are only used with ill animals, they are expensive and not good in meat.

Most beef is grazed, some is fed feed but most just stand in fields eating grass.

Ones in sheds (mainly in winter) eat silage, which is grown on the farm.

I have cattle farming relatives.

[Nickbat]

Cows are bad for us ? A little more 'food' for thought on the 'peak' food debate.

The complex and overlooked relationship between population/food/oil........

The modern factory farming system is a prolific consumer of fossil fuel and a prolific producer of poisonous wastes. Up to 100,000 animals are herded together on huge feedlots. These animals do not graze on grass, as picture books tell us; they can’t graze at all. Feedlots are crowded, filthy, stinking places with open sewers, unpaved roads and choking air. The animals would not survive at all but for the fact that they are fed huge amounts of antibiotics. It is now conceded that the antibiotics fed to cattle are the main cause of antibiotic resistance in people, as the bacteria constantly in these environments evolve to survive them. The cattle are fed prodigious quantities of corn. At a feedlot of a mere 37,000 cows, 25 tons of corn are dumped every hour. It takes 1.2 gallons of oil to make the fertilizer used for each bushel of that corn. Before a cow is slaughtered, she will eat 25 pounds of corn a day; by the time she is slaughtered she will weigh more than 1,200 pounds. In her lifetime she will have consumed, in effect, 284 gallons of oil. Today’s factory-raised cow is not a solar-powered ruminant but another fossil fuel machine.
Part of the deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is due to large soybean plantations that are growing on former forest lands. But these soybeans are not going to feed vegetarians seeking meat-free alternatives - most of the world soybean crop goes to farm animals, not to feed people.

Think about that next time you go to mcdonalds ! And when the price of oil rises yet again you can blame that big fat heffer..How many starving people could live on the grain it took to produce that T bone ?

The world will have to change its eating habits if we want to feed the growing population.

I'm all for sensible, compassionate farming, but where did this diatribe come from? There's no link!!

There is plenty of space and food to feed the world- and plenty of oil, too. The Greenies (like the head of the IPCC) want us all to go veggie, but I like my meat and i think that, in moderation, it's good for me.

Incidentally, most fast food outlets, and supermarkets, are now careful to ensure that their meat is produced by farms operated to high standards of husbandry and care.

Not sure what your point is, TBH.  :-/

[Gaffers]

Cows are bad for us ? A little more 'food' for thought on the 'peak' food debate.

The complex and overlooked relationship between population/food/oil........

The modern factory farming system is a prolific consumer of fossil fuel and a prolific producer of poisonous wastes. Up to 100,000 animals are herded together on huge feedlots. These animals do not graze on grass, as picture books tell us; they can’t graze at all. Feedlots are crowded, filthy, stinking places with open sewers, unpaved roads and choking air. The animals would not survive at all but for the fact that they are fed huge amounts of antibiotics. It is now conceded that the antibiotics fed to cattle are the main cause of antibiotic resistance in people, as the bacteria constantly in these environments evolve to survive them. The cattle are fed prodigious quantities of corn. At a feedlot of a mere 37,000 cows, 25 tons of corn are dumped every hour. It takes 1.2 gallons of oil to make the fertilizer used for each bushel of that corn. Before a cow is slaughtered, she will eat 25 pounds of corn a day; by the time she is slaughtered she will weigh more than 1,200 pounds. In her lifetime she will have consumed, in effect, 284 gallons of oil. Today’s factory-raised cow is not a solar-powered ruminant but another fossil fuel machine.
Part of the deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is due to large soybean plantations that are growing on former forest lands. But these soybeans are not going to feed vegetarians seeking meat-free alternatives - most of the world soybean crop goes to farm animals, not to feed people.

Think about that next time you go to mcdonalds ! And when the price of oil rises yet again you can blame that big fat heffer..How many starving people could live on the grain it took to produce that T bone ?

The world will have to change its eating habits if we want to feed the growing population.

I'm all for sensible, compassionate farming, but where did this diatribe come from? There's no link!!

There is plenty of space and food to feed the world- and plenty of oil, too. The Greenies (like the head of the IPCC) want us all to go veggie, but I like my meat and i think that, in moderation, it's good for me.

Incidentally, most fast food outlets, and supermarkets, are now careful to ensure that their meat is produced by farms operated to high standards of husbandry and care.

Not sure what your point is, TBH.  :-/

When Nickbat says that it's a strong statement 

[Vamps]

Can't be arsed to read all that at this time of night....

[Banjax]

i love your worldview Nickbat!

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change you're sceptical of yet you believe McDonalds?? I'm lovin it 


there was a documentary recently about this, the cost of beef production in terms of oil is so high that when Cuba lost its cheap oil from the Russians they had to change their eating habits almost overnight!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00m9xk9/Future_of_Food_Episode_1/

[Lioned]

Yep apologies,probably shouldn't post such 'heavy' stuff late at night.

Frankly i do love a nice steak,and have no intention whatsoever of giving up meat.
Neither do i believe all the stuff thats spouted by our politicians on global warming,though i do believe in climate change as a natural cycle.

The extract i posted was mostly reffering to American 'factory farms' .i will try to find the link later on if anyone wants.

The message though remains,that the amount of grain/oil involved in fattening up these heffers for our consumption is disproportionate to the mouths that could otherwise be fed.

And the population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate.

[Nickbat]

The IPCC does not, by its own admission, carry out its own scientific research or verification. I would actually rather believe McDonalds, since they at least have a reputation to lose.

Pachauri, head of the IPCC, is an ex-railway engineer, who is a committed veggie. You bet I'm sceptical!

As for Future of Food, I didn't watch the programme and probably wouldn't even if given the opportunity. It's presenter, George Alagaih, was head of the Fairtrade Foundation, until told by the BBC to quit. Ergo, he must already have a political view on the subject. Usual BBC. They are quite incapable of making an unbiased programme these days. Even Question Time last Friday (Dimbleby, member The Green Alliance, alongside panel-member Porritt, member of The Green Alliance  ).

I would quite like to see a programme which was an entirely objective view of the history and future of farming, but one which was not a tirade against western consumption.

BTW, I don't suppose GM crops were discussed in a positive light at all, were they? The majority of that flora which is grown commercially is already genetically modified through hybridisation.

 

[Nickbat]

Yep apologies,probably shouldn't post such 'heavy' stuff late at night.

Frankly i do love a nice steak,and have no intention whatsoever of giving up meat.
Neither do i believe all the stuff thats spouted by our politicians on global warming,though i do believe in climate change as a natural cycle.

The extract i posted was mostly reffering to American 'factory farms' .i will try to find the link later on if anyone wants.

The message though remains,that the amount of grain/oil involved in fattening up these heffers for our consumption is disproportionate to the mouths that could otherwise be fed.

And the population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate.

"Birthrates have been falling in the industrialized world for more than a century now and worldwide since the 1970s. They are now predicted to drop below what's known as replacement levels somewhere 2040 and 2050. Shortly thereafter the world's population itself will peak and begin declining, unless something momentous changes."

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/09/02/japan_is_losing_its_ultimate_resource_97387.html
 

[Banjax]

Yep apologies,probably shouldn't post such 'heavy' stuff late at night.

Frankly i do love a nice steak,and have no intention whatsoever of giving up meat.
Neither do i believe all the stuff thats spouted by our politicians on global warming,though i do believe in climate change as a natural cycle.

The extract i posted was mostly reffering to American 'factory farms' .i will try to find the link later on if anyone wants.

The message though remains,that the amount of grain/oil involved in fattening up these heffers for our consumption is disproportionate to the mouths that could otherwise be fed.

And the population of the world is increasing at an alarming rate.

"Birthrates have been falling in the industrialized world for more than a century now and worldwide since the 1970s. They are now predicted to drop below what's known as replacement levels somewhere 2040 and 2050. Shortly thereafter the world's population itself will peak and begin declining, unless something momentous changes."

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/09/02/japan_is_losing_its_ultimate_resource_97387.html
 

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html

6.8 billion and increasing over 1% per year!! the sooner we slow down the better 

[Banjax]

The IPCC does not, by its own admission, carry out its own scientific research or verification. I would actually rather believe McDonalds, since they at least have a reputation to lose.

Pachauri, head of the IPCC, is an ex-railway engineer, who is a committed veggie. You bet I'm sceptical!

As for Future of Food, I didn't watch the programme and probably wouldn't even if given the opportunity. It's presenter, George Alagaih, was head of the Fairtrade Foundation, until told by the BBC to quit. Ergo, he must already have a political view on the subject. Usual BBC. They are quite incapable of making an unbiased programme these days. Even Question Time last Friday (Dimbleby, member The Green Alliance, alongside panel-member Porritt, member of The Green Alliance  ).

I would quite like to see a programme which was an entirely objective view of the history and future of farming, but one which was not a tirade against western consumption.

BTW, I don't suppose GM crops were discussed in a positive light at all, were they? The majority of that flora which is grown commercially is already genetically modified through hybridisation.

 

you say that like its a bad thing! all the IPCC does is collate findings from research across the planet - its not a research body 

i'd love to know how you know David Dimbleby's a greenie - this is a revelation - he's one of those Oxford/Bullingdon Club graduates (you know, along with Mr Cameron and Boris)?

[Nickbat]

We (the developed countries) are slowing down, Bannjaax. That is not the case with the less-developed nations, however. Population will peak because of this slow down (in the developed countries), but there will be proportionally more from the less-developed nations. One more reason why those nations should be encouraged to develop.   

[Nickbat]

The IPCC does not, by its own admission, carry out its own scientific research or verification. I would actually rather believe McDonalds, since they at least have a reputation to lose.

Pachauri, head of the IPCC, is an ex-railway engineer, who is a committed veggie. You bet I'm sceptical!

As for Future of Food, I didn't watch the programme and probably wouldn't even if given the opportunity. It's presenter, George Alagaih, was head of the Fairtrade Foundation, until told by the BBC to quit. Ergo, he must already have a political view on the subject. Usual BBC. They are quite incapable of making an unbiased programme these days. Even Question Time last Friday (Dimbleby, member The Green Alliance, alongside panel-member Porritt, member of The Green Alliance  ).

I would quite like to see a programme which was an entirely objective view of the history and future of farming, but one which was not a tirade against western consumption.

BTW, I don't suppose GM crops were discussed in a positive light at all, were they? The majority of that flora which is grown commercially is already genetically modified through hybridisation.

 

you say that like its a bad thing! all the IPCC does is collate findings from research across the planet - its not a research body 

i'd love to know how you know David Dimbleby's a greenie - this is a revelation - he's one of those Oxford/Bullingdon Club graduates (you know, along with Mr Cameron and Boris)?

http://www.green-alliance.org.uk/grea.aspx?id=2618

Job done.

[Nickbat]

Apologies, Bannjaax, it appears that it is Jonathan Dimbleby that is the GA member. I had heard it was brother David, but that was clearly an error. 

[Banjax]

Apologies, Bannjaax, it appears that it is Jonathan Dimbleby that is the GA member. I had heard it was brother David, but that was clearly an error. 

no worries - if i was really intrigued if he was - i thought it sounded odd!!!