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Author Topic: help with tools, electrical.  (Read 4833 times)

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feeutfo

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help with tools, electrical.
« on: 26 October 2009, 10:45:12 »

my basic understanding of electrics is appalling frankly, i dont get it on the whole, as some of you may well have noticed. This is something i intend to change and have noticed other members have a similar problem/fear/issue/phobia or whatever with sparks as i do.

Main problem for me is experience, i dont have contact with it professionally, and i only really learn best when hands on. There is nout wrong with the car to try and fix and learn. So before it plays up i thought i should stock up on a meter at the very least and try and learn a bit. Would also be nice, on the side, to know why the lights in the kitchen go dim when i turn the kettle on...?

So, any recommendations ?

Seen talk of avo meters, amp meters and clamp meters, and of course have no idea on the differances and their applications. I wonder if their are any tutorials on line, or what ever, that may help.

Cheers

Chris. :-)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #1 on: 26 October 2009, 11:05:47 »

Feel free to pop round and pick my brain sometime. I can furnish you with some junk to play with if you like. You've borne witness to the fact that I've got enough.  ;)

As to multimeters, clamp meters are only really useful for measuring large currents without interrupting the conductor. Most only measure AC current in the clamp mode, and they are generally not that accurate, especially when the currents are small.

As such, they are a specialist item which you will probably not need for general experimentation and a bit of car diagnosis.

I would say get a cheap digital multimeter from the likes of Maplin or on Ebay for starters. You can get these for a fiver upwards and the main considerations are the maximum current range - if you need to measure up to 10 or 20 amps the cheap ones generally won't do the job. Other than that, pretty much anything will be adequate.

Failing that go to a few junk sale, car boots, etc. and look out for an old AVO.

Kevin
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Andy B

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #2 on: 26 October 2009, 11:08:13 »

Quote
.....
Failing that go to a few junk sale, car boots, etc. and look out for an old AVO.

Kevin

And a trolly to carry it home on!  ;) ;)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #3 on: 26 October 2009, 11:14:43 »


Quote
And a trolly to carry it home on!

Don't you mean them?

How my mum used to cringe when I came home from school and promptly disappeared up the road with the wheelbarrow! Some more junk spotted. ;D

Anyway, here's a starter for ten. Seems a decent tutorial on circuits at first glance:

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/dccircuits/dcp_1.html

Kevin
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Andy B

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #4 on: 26 October 2009, 11:24:49 »

Quote
Quote
And a trolly to carry it home on!

Don't you mean them?  .......

The (old moving coil  :-/) AVO's I'm thinking of would need the trolly on its own.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #5 on: 26 October 2009, 11:37:56 »

Quote
Would also be nice, on the side, to know why the lights in the kitchen go dim when i turn the kettle on...?

Having looked at that tutorial, you need to know that every voltage source in the real world, and every conductor of electricity, has resistance. The conductors that bring the mains into and around your house have a resistance.

When a current is forced to flow through a resistance, it develops a voltage drop across that resistance (see the page on Ohm's law). This voltage drop subtracts from the voltage available from the source, so you are left with less voltage.

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, that the substation at the end of your road is delivering a constant 230 Volts (it's not, but it's big enough that your kettle won't affect it too much). It's also an AC voltage, but for our purposes that doesn't matter.

There is a conductor between that substation and your house, a meter and a fuse where it enters your house, and then the circuits diverge at the consumer unit, with separate circuits (hopefully!) feeding your kettle socket and your kitchen light. There is therefore a resistance between you and the substation. A low one, nonetheless.

The more current your house draws, the more voltage is dropped in the resistance and therefore that constant 230 Volts is reduced by the time it gets to your house.

Your kettle is probably rated at around 2200 Watts. Power is related to volts and Amps as shown in the tutorial:   P (Watts)  = V (Volts) x I (Amps).

So, we know P = 2200 and V = 230.

Solving this equation for I we get I = P/V or about 9.6 Amps.

So, when you switch on your kettle, an extra 9.6 Amps flows through the resistance feeding your house. This results in an additional voltage drop meaning the voltage available to your kitchen light drops slightly too. The power equation above applies to your kitchen light too, so less power is consumed by it (due to the reduction in voltage) meaning less power is emitted as light and it dims.

Your household supply is probably rated for up to 100 Amps so an extra 9.6 shouldn't drop it by much (probably less than a Volt) but some lights are quite sensitive to voltage drops.

Watch the warning lights on the dash next time you start your car. They dim significantly when the starter motor is cranking the engine. Same principle but exaggerated a little. Starter motor takes a huge current from the battery (several hundred Amps), battery has a finite resistance, so its' voltage drops.

Kevin
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Kevin Wood

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #6 on: 26 October 2009, 11:39:07 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
And a trolly to carry it home on!

Don't you mean them?  .......

The (old moving coil  :-/) AVO's I'm thinking of would need the trolly on its own.

This is what I meant:



Very portable.  ;)

Kevin
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Andy B

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #7 on: 26 October 2009, 11:47:07 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
And a trolly to carry it home on!

Don't you mean them?  .......

The (old moving coil  :-/) AVO's I'm thinking of would need the trolly on its own.

This is what I meant:



Very portable.  ;)

Kevin

That's the very one!  :y  :y
We used them at school ...... I'm not sure if digital had even been invented then!  ;D  ;D  ;D
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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #8 on: 26 October 2009, 12:07:08 »

Quote
That's the very one!  :y  :y
We used them at school ...... I'm not sure if digital had even been invented then;D  ;D  ;D

Yes it had. I can see them written all over the scale.  :y

Kevin
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Andy B

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #9 on: 26 October 2009, 12:12:05 »

Quote
Quote
That's the very one!  :y  :y
We used them at school ...... I'm not sure if digital had even been invented then;D  ;D  ;D

Yes it had. I can see them written all over the scale.  :y

Kevin

Nobody likes a smart 4r$e!  ;D  ;D  ;D

We went to UMIST from school (1978-ish) and they were showing us some new developments in digital displays ie digital micrometers etc ....... it was all very new back then!  ;) ;)
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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #10 on: 26 October 2009, 13:05:12 »

You'll like my clock then.



Kevin
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I_want_an_Omega

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #11 on: 26 October 2009, 13:09:01 »

I've just bought one of those via fleabay! Used them at Tech college in 1976.

You can get a decent digital multimeter that will do pretty much the same from Maplin for about £20 - £25.

The trick to using any type of meter is to double check the range setting on the meter before you use it. This especially true of measuring mains voltage or on a car battery. If you get it wrong then at best you might blow a fuse in the meter, through damaging the meter itself, to at worst, causing a "fault current" to flow. These are interesting and can cause sparks, melted wiring and smoke!

Just be careful and double check!
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Andy B

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #12 on: 26 October 2009, 13:11:32 »

Quote
You'll like my clock then.



Kevin

That's excellent!

Which reminds me, we had something in the Physics lab, which I've long since forgotten what it was, but that had a display something similar. Each digit was a hairline thickness and were stacked up behind each other, so as they counted up they also moved in depth too  :-/ ..... if you see what I mean  ;)  ;)
Electrickery has moved on a little in the last 30 odd years  :y  :y
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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #13 on: 26 October 2009, 13:43:27 »

Quote

That's excellent!

Which reminds me, we had something in the Physics lab, which I've long since forgotten what it was, but that had a display something similar. Each digit was a hairline thickness and were stacked up behind each other, so as they counted up they also moved in depth too  :-/ ..... if you see what I mean  ;)  ;)
Electrickery has moved on a little in the last 30 odd years  :y  :y

Yep, that's what you're looking at. A Nixie tube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube

I remember we had a counter/timer in the physics lab that used a dekatron spinner - a combined display and counter. 8-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron

Kevin
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KillerWatt

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Re: help with tools, electrical.
« Reply #14 on: 26 October 2009, 19:17:01 »

Basic electrics (which is all a car/motorcycle consists of) is very easy (think "water" pipe analogy).
The difficult part for most is when you need to involve the math (that's when "water" pipe analogy isn't worth crap).

I'm more than happy to show you the world of electrickery, but you will need to be able to understand basic math before you start.
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