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[Varche]

Tony Blairs big day today. I am sure he will sail through it fairly unscathed.

However one unfortunate outcome of holding the inquiry might be to "admit" in law that the war was in fact illegal. So what would Britain (and America) do if the Iraqis rightfully demanded compensation to the tune of BILLIONS.? That would bankrupt our already bankrupt country!

I suppose we could always borrow the money off the Americans and pay it back over the next 50 years (sound familiar?)

[Kevin Wood]

You make a very good point.

Or, on the other hand, the war is declared illegal. Where does that leave the current war effort? Is it legal to continue or do we have the worst possible outcome of a job left half done?

If only the smarmy, grinning batsrad had had the patience to get proper support before wading in.

Kevin

[Chris_H]

You make a very good point.

Or, on the other hand, the war is declared illegal. Where does that leave the current war effort? Is it legal to continue or do we have the worst possible outcome of a job left half done?

If only the smarmy, grinning batsrad had had the patience to get proper support before wading in.

Kevin

That's possibly the same hand?

But New Labour were tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime so if it is proved illegal then Grinning Thing should be stripped of all his assets (he can keep CB) and that should help out the Iraqis.

[Nickbat]

Tony Blairs big day today. I am sure he will sail through it fairly unscathed.

However one unfortunate outcome of holding the inquiry might be to "admit" in law that the war was in fact illegal. So what would Britain (and America) do if the Iraqis rightfully demanded compensation to the tune of BILLIONS.? That would bankrupt our already bankrupt country!

I suppose we could always borrow the money off the Americans and pay it back over the next 50 years (sound familiar?)

International law is a very, very vague business. For every lawyer that argues it was "illegal" there will be one who can argue it was "legal".

Thus, to me, this argument about legality is a red herring. The real issue is whether it the British public and Parliament was deliberately lied to and I believe that the case for that argument is rather strong.

Personally, I was misled. In my naivety, I thought that the intelligence services had concrete evidence that not only did Saddam possess WMD, but that he was soon to use them. Since that time, I have learned the hard way that, gone are the days when an Englishman's word was his bond. These days, you cannot trust any member of government. Similarly, the trust I had in my youth for the police, doctors, teachers, "men of the cloth", and the BBC, have all evaporated. It seems that finding someone honest and trustworthy in public life is like looking for rocking-horse sh*t.

That is the "Broken Britain" to which Cameron should refer. But he doesn't. 

   

[Richie London]

so what happens at the end of this enquiry, does anyone the blame, does anyone get prosecuted, whos made money out of this enquiry, how much has it cost the taxpayer.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Tony Blairs big day today. I am sure he will sail through it fairly unscathed.

However one unfortunate outcome of holding the inquiry might be to "admit" in law that the war was in fact illegal. So what would Britain (and America) do if the Iraqis rightfully demanded compensation to the tune of BILLIONS.? That would bankrupt our already bankrupt country!

I suppose we could always borrow the money off the Americans and pay it back over the next 50 years (sound familiar?)

International law is a very, very vague business. For every lawyer that argues it was "illegal" there will be one who can argue it was "legal".

Thus, to me, this argument about legality is a red herring. The real issue is whether it the British public and Parliament was deliberately lied to and I believe that the case for that argument is rather strong.

Personally, I was misled. In my naivety, I thought that the intelligence services had concrete evidence that not only did Saddam possess WMD, but that he was soon to use them. Since that time, I have learned the hard way that, gone are the days when an Englishman's word was his bond. These days, you cannot trust any member of government. Similarly, the trust I had in my youth for the police, doctors, teachers, "men of the cloth", and the BBC, have all evaporated. It seems that finding someone honest and trustworthy in public life is like looking for rocking-horse sh*t.

That is the "Broken Britain" to which Cameron should refer. But he doesn't. 

   

......Agreed....ambiguous and open to interpretation.
A big mistake by Tony Blair in my view...How will history judge him ......I wonder?... :-/ :-/ :-/

[Chris_H]

Tony Blairs big day today. I am sure he will sail through it fairly unscathed.

However one unfortunate outcome of holding the inquiry might be to "admit" in law that the war was in fact illegal. So what would Britain (and America) do if the Iraqis rightfully demanded compensation to the tune of BILLIONS.? That would bankrupt our already bankrupt country!

I suppose we could always borrow the money off the Americans and pay it back over the next 50 years (sound familiar?)

International law is a very, very vague business. For every lawyer that argues it was "illegal" there will be one who can argue it was "legal".

Thus, to me, this argument about legality is a red herring. The real issue is whether it the British public and Parliament was deliberately lied to and I believe that the case for that argument is rather strong.

Personally, I was misled. In my naivety, I thought that the intelligence services had concrete evidence that not only did Saddam possess WMD, but that he was soon to use them. Since that time, I have learned the hard way that, gone are the days when an Englishman's word was his bond. These days, you cannot trust any member of government. Similarly, the trust I had in my youth for the police, doctors, teachers, "men of the cloth", and the BBC, have all evaporated. It seems that finding someone honest and trustworthy in public life is like looking for rocking-horse sh*t.

That is the "Broken Britain" to which Cameron should refer. But he doesn't. 

   

I agree with a lot of what you say there Nickbat.  Part of discovering that people aren't trustworthy is just us growing up and being able to check things out for ourselves.  However, I'm convinced that you are right to think that people in Britain are less trustworthy than they were a couple of decades ago even.

When I listen to David Cameron, I try to interpret what he says in the light of my experience so I think he may be onto the problem as I see it.  Trying to get remedies implemented might have to be similar to Grinning Thing's technique on Iraq though, otherwise there will be too much opposition to get any legislation through.  One person in parliament who realises the problem will not be enough, and the problem is pervasive, especially in The House.

[Dishevelled Den]

Once again Varche has provided a sumptuous banquet for those of us who possess a healthy political appetite to feast upon

There will be many questions to be answered concerning the conduct of this war, not least the legality of it.  However I am more concerned with just how the cabinet and back-benchers - members of a duly and democratically elected government and many in the opposition parties - were subsumed into taking this action by a small cabal of individuals led by ex Premier Blair, ex Chancellor (now Premier) Brown, the unelected and very mendacious Mr Campbell and some others.

In my view the democratic process within this country was disregarded by these people who were obviously working to an agenda outside the proper remit of democratic scrutiny.  This is unforgivable and has made a mockery of due process - in short, it smacks of the work of a dictatorship.

May they burn in hell for it!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Once again Varche has provided a sumptuous banquet for those of us who possess a healthy political appetite to feast upon

There will be many questions to be answered concerning the conduct of this war, not least the legality of it.  However I am more concerned with just how the cabinet and back-benchers - members of a duly and democratically elected government - were subsumed into taking this action by a small cabal of individuals led by ex Premier Blair, ex Chancellor (now Premier) Brown, the unelected and very mendacious Mr Campbell and some others.

In my view the democratic process within this country was disregarded by these people who were obviously working to an agenda outside the proper remit of democratic scrutiny.  This is unforgivable and has made a mockery of due process - in short, it smacks of the work of a dictatorship.

May they burn in hell for it!!

......now.. now ....Zulu.....take a deep breath .....count to ten ...and then...........

[Dishevelled Den]

Once again Varche has provided a sumptuous banquet for those of us who possess a healthy political appetite to feast upon

There will be many questions to be answered concerning the conduct of this war, not least the legality of it.  However I am more concerned with just how the cabinet and back-benchers - members of a duly and democratically elected government - were subsumed into taking this action by a small cabal of individuals led by ex Premier Blair, ex Chancellor (now Premier) Brown, the unelected and very mendacious Mr Campbell and some others.

In my view the democratic process within this country was disregarded by these people who were obviously working to an agenda outside the proper remit of democratic scrutiny.  This is unforgivable and has made a mockery of due process - in short, it smacks of the work of a dictatorship.

May they burn in hell for it!!

......now.. now ....Zulu.....take a deep breath .....count to ten ...and then...........

  Thanks Opti, I've just asked Julie London to help me with that 8-)



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtIEkdTlnC8&feature=related[/media]

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Once again Varche has provided a sumptuous banquet for those of us who possess a healthy political appetite to feast upon

There will be many questions to be answered concerning the conduct of this war, not least the legality of it.  However I am more concerned with just how the cabinet and back-benchers - members of a duly and democratically elected government - were subsumed into taking this action by a small cabal of individuals led by ex Premier Blair, ex Chancellor (now Premier) Brown, the unelected and very mendacious Mr Campbell and some others.

In my view the democratic process within this country was disregarded by these people who were obviously working to an agenda outside the proper remit of democratic scrutiny.  This is unforgivable and has made a mockery of due process - in short, it smacks of the work of a dictatorship.

May they burn in hell for it!!

......now.. now ....Zulu.....take a deep breath .....count to ten ...and then...........

  Thanks Opti, I've just asked Julie London to help me with that 8-)



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtIEkdTlnC8&feature=related[/media]

so much better...........now you're in the mood for  lurve Zulu.. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I have been watching the threads on the Iraq war enquiry with interest.  Noted has been the obsession with the legality of it or not, which I do fully understand.

However, I am a supporter of Machiavellian practice, as the means can be justified by the end result, and Bentham / Mills belief in utilitarianism and action taken for the greater good.  This theology is apparent in much of world history,  especially in recent times.  Example - bombing of Germany in WW2 1943-1945 - sacrifice of troops, such as on the D-Day 1944 when around 5,000 casualties (but not the 10,000 expected) were sustained - dropping of 'the bomb' on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki 1945.

I therefore celebrate the demise of Saddam Hussein, the bloody dictator who killed en-mass his opposition, killed by WMD and oppression 50-100,000 Kurds - who invaded Kuwait - and who oppressed and killed 10's of thousands of his own people.  Good ridence to this evil despot and his evil family who would kill for fun and power.

I am not a Labourite, but I salute Tony Blair for his courage in making a  very, very difficult and lonely decision, that he as a Prime Minister had to take and now shoulders the responsibilty for, as Winston Churchill had to during WW2.

Saddam would have grown ever more dangerous if he had been left alone, and we can now only speculate as to how dangerous now as thank God he is no longer with us.  A situation that I for one rejoice about!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I have been watching the threads on the Iraq war enquiry with interest.  Noted has been the obsession with the legality of it or not, which I do fully understand.

However, I am a supporter of Machiavellian practice, as the means can be justified by the end result, and Bentham / Mills belief in utilitarianism and action taken for the greater good.  This theology is apparent in much of world history,  especially in recent times.  Example - bombing of Germany in WW2 1943-1945 - sacrifice of troops, such as on the D-Day 1944 when around 5,000 casualties (but not the 10,000 expected) were sustained - dropping of 'the bomb' on both Hiroshima and Nagasaki 1945.

I therefore celebrate the demise of Saddam Hussein, the bloody dictator who killed en-mass his opposition, killed by WMD and oppression 50-100,000 Kurds - who invaded Kuwait - and who oppressed and killed 10's of thousands of his own people.  Good ridence to this evil despot and his evil family who would kill for fun and power.

I am not a Labourite, but I salute Tony Blair for his courage in making a  very, very difficult and lonely decision, that he as a Prime Minister had to take and now shoulders the responsibilty for, as Winston Churchill had to during WW2.

Saddam would have grown ever more dangerous if he had been left alone, and we can now only speculate as to how dangerous now as thank God he is no longer with us.  A situation that I for one rejoice about!

...I'm shocked by this revelation Lizzie..

[STMO999]

I liked it better when a war was a war. Didn't have to worry about collateral damage, just blow them all to smithereens.

It would have been over in no time and, once the radioactivity had settled down, we could have helped ourselves to all their natural resources


I should be PM.

[cem_devecioglu]

I liked it better when a war was a war. Didn't have to worry about collateral damage, just blow them all to smithereens.

It would have been over in no time and, once the radioactivity had settled down, we could have helped ourselves to all their natural resources


I should be PM.

you know what I think, I like this man

only problem is Stmo, even 10 generations after you have to wait for radiation to settle