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[Nickbat]

So, was it all a hoax?

"The outgoing Chair of the Council of Europe's Sub-committee on Health Wolfgang Wodarg said that his panel's investigation into the 2009 swine flu outbreak has found that the pandemic was a fake hoax manufactured by pharmaceutical companies in league with the WHO to make vast profits while endangering public health." 

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/february2010/020410_pandemic_hoax.htm

[Vamps]

So, was it all a hoax?

"The outgoing Chair of the Council of Europe's Sub-committee on Health Wolfgang Wodarg said that his panel's investigation into the 2009 swine flu outbreak has found that the pandemic was a fake hoax manufactured by pharmaceutical companies in league with the WHO to make vast profits while endangering public health." 

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/february2010/020410_pandemic_hoax.htm

swmbo and myself were asking the question a little while ago, what happened to it. I think someone at the time suggested that the pharmaceutical companies had done very nicely out of it....... :-/
I had the jab to protect me.....

[Gaffers]

 

2 big questions:

1.  Does he have any proof?

2.  How much did the WHO know about the 'exagerations'?

[Nickbat]

However, Wodarg pointed out, "There is no law for WHO, there is no one who punishes those people in WHO, we only have national law, so this is very important that we collect the information and on the national level we try to find those people responsible and we try to punish them."

Why does this remind me of the climate scam?

Supranational organisations are above national law and open to corruption. Follow the money.

The immorality of this is that the money spent on vaccines, and we're talking billions, could have been spent on treating preventable diseases like malaria in Africa.

The similarity with the climate scam is that the trillions spent has lined the pockets of many, yet real environmental issues like clean water for third-world countries and deforestation haven't had a look in.

Still, when there are enough useful idiots who swallow all they read in the media without question, it will happen again and again.

I say again. Follow the money. 

[Lazydocker]

I had it! No... It wasn't a fake. I was really ill! If you'd knocked on the door with the Lottery winnings I wouldn't have been able to get them

But... It was all blown out of proportion. Just as many people die from regular flu every year

[hotel21]

Its one of those damned if you do, damned if you dont scenarious, I think....

If we ( the UK Government) did not take the steps that were, then we could easily have had the predicted pandemic.

As it was, there was a fairly good uptake on medication, for whatever reason, and we have weathered the storm.

If the medication had been provided, as it was, and the UK then fell like flies then what would the remainder of usbe complaining about?  Vaccine was innefective, why him and not her, etc etc...

If it was not supplied and we were pillaged by disease, what then??

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.....   

[Gaffers]

I had it! No... It wasn't a fake. I was really ill! If you'd knocked on the door with the Lottery winnings I wouldn't have been able to get them

But... It was all blown out of proportion. Just as many people die from regular flu every year

No, more die from regular flu.

[Dishevelled Den]

Its one of those damned if you do, damned if you dont scenarious, I think....

If we ( the UK Government) did not take the steps that were, then we could easily have had the predicted pandemic.

As it was, there was a fairly good uptake on medication, for whatever reason, and we have weathered the storm.

If the medication had been provided, as it was, and the UK then fell like flies then what would the remainder of usbe complaining about?  Vaccine was innefective, why him and not her, etc etc...

If it was not supplied and we were pillaged by disease, what then??

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.....   

]Its one of those damned if you do, damned if you dont scenarious, I think

That's a very fair and important comment B.  Such decisions – the ones that are obliged to consider the national interest as a whole - are always the most difficult to make, so I do have sympathy for the government in this case.

I do however agree with Nick that the laxness in the entire system of our government simply encourages this type of behaviour (profit seeking) from those with an agenda who are able to lobby those in government with ease as a result of the culture built up by weak administration.

He quite rightly points that, in these cases, there is invariably a money trail left behind, so it isn't beyond the bounds of reason that some form of accurate picture could be built up to show the chronology, and the actors, in this particular production that seems to have been a sell-out success for some.

[Dishevelled Den]

However, Wodarg pointed out, "There is no law for WHO, there is no one who punishes those people in WHO, we only have national law, so this is very important that we collect the information and on the national level we try to find those people responsible and we try to punish them."

Why does this remind me of the climate scam?

Supranational organisations are above national law and open to corruption. Follow the money.

The immorality of this is that the money spent on vaccines, and we're talking billions, could have been spent on treating preventable diseases like malaria in Africa.

The similarity with the climate scam is that the trillions spent has lined the pockets of many, yet real environmental issues like clean water for third-world countries and deforestation haven't had a look in.

Still, when there are enough useful idiots who swallow all they read in the media without question, it will happen again and again.

I say again. Follow the money. 

Supranational organisations are above national law and open to corruption

Now we're getting to an issue that should be examined - and examined closely - as such organisations are being cemented into the popular culture in such a way that national governments will be little more than local administrators for these behemoths of legislative power.

money spent on vaccines, and we're talking billions, could have been spent on treating preventable diseases like malaria in Africa........//..........trillions spent has lined the pockets of many, yet real environmental issues like clean water for third-world countries and deforestation haven't had a look in.

This is the natural result of following a route that has been so well prepared by those groups, who have an agenda, that fails to really consider how those in genuine need are helped in the most cost-effective and practical way possible.

Of course, if we had a strong capable government in this country then perhaps we would be in a position to not only offer real help to our own people, but those others around the world in need.

[jereboam]

I'm usually very sceptical about this sort of thing, and I don't generally trust scare stories based on epidemiological research rather than actual numbers of people falling over.

However, this one seems to have been more or less correct.  Everything that the epidemiologists said would happen did happen.  The reason that it looks like a hoax is quite simply that the symptoms of the illness caused by the virus turned out to be so mild that the vast majority of the people who caught it barely noticed they had it.  Not all - it killed some, and made others very ill, but it didn't affect most people very badly.

The government didn't really have much choice.  They had to vaccinate just in case the outcome would have been different.

[Nickbat]

I'm usually very sceptical about this sort of thing, and I don't generally trust scare stories based on epidemiological research rather than actual numbers of people falling over.

However, this one seems to have been more or less correct.  Everything that the epidemiologists said would happen did happen.  The reason that it looks like a hoax is quite simply that the symptoms of the illness caused by the virus turned out to be so mild that the vast majority of the people who caught it barely noticed they had it.  Not all - it killed some, and made others very ill, but it didn't affect most people very badly.

The government didn't really have much choice.  They had to vaccinate just in case the outcome would have been different.

They forecast 65,000 deaths and the last time I looked there had been 251.

The point is that fingers are being pointed at the WHO, in that they may have caused an unnecessary panic was invoked and that the "science" was sexed-up.

that's how I read it , anyway.  :-/

[jereboam]

I didn't know about those numbers - was that for the UK or worldwide? 

My point was that the epidemiologists, who are essentially medical statisticians, rather than researchers or clinicians, were fairly clear on the way it would spread, and the reported behaviour seemed to bear out what they said.  The fact that hardly anybody died from it must be seen as a bonus for us all. 

On the other hand, I doubt if anyone will ever know how many of the reported cases of swine flu were actually caused by the H1N1 virus.  I'm sure some of it must have been panic reaction by the public.

I certainly don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that there was, shall we say, some encouragement along the way from the pharmaceutical industry.  And it could possibly have been a very cleverly engineered fraud, but then whoever perpetrated it would have had to factor in the panic reaction in such a way that it could be seen as a normal spread of the disease.  I think that might have been a bit difficult to do.

The originator of the hoax theory seems to have a good track record and training in epidemiology, so there may be something in it, but I'm inclined to the c*ck-up explanation.  But I wish I'd had some pharmaceutical shares

[Nickbat]

Those were figures for England, J. The breakdown is 360 in the UK totally, comprising 251 in England, 28 in Wales, 64 in Scotland and 17 in Northern Ireland.

[baz1701]

I had swine flu just before Christmas, and it was no worse than ordinary flu.

That tami flu stuff they prescribed was useless and I did much better with supermarket decongestant and lots of hot drinks.

So yeah, just one big joke.