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[Nickbat]

On the basis of what I have read elsewhere, I can say that this Mail story is apparently accurate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1297621/Ministers-hand-Big-Brother-powers-EU-police.html 

..and how about this part?

"The Tories were opposed to the directive in opposition, saying it showed a ‘relish for surveillance and disdain for civil liberties’.

But ministers have made a dramatic U-turn since joining the pro-EU Lib Dems in government, and the wide-ranging powers are due to be approved later this week."

"Call Me Dave" is proving a disappointment to many.

[cem_devecioglu]

if Brits accept this, I'll eat my hat no way..

[2woody]

who's nieve onough to reckon that Britain is independant ?

over 75% of UK parliament time is spent "rubber stampint" EU Directives. The UK has lost the right to oppose - Tony Blair gave it away for nowt.

[cem_devecioglu]

EU=CLU =cheap labour union ..

[Dishevelled Den]

Slowly but surely people are beginning to realise just what our acceptance of the Lisbon Treaty is likely to cost.

From the 'Europe First' perspective it makes perfect sense - providing of course that we accept that there will be no going back to having full charge of out national/foreign/financial and defence policies and decide to become a 'team' player.

I would be doubtful however that the game we would be required to prepare for is one likely to be played on a level field.

Insofar as the Prime Minister is concerned, he hasn't disappointed me in the least by not deviating far from the suspected line.  You've gotta give him kudos for that.

[Dishevelled Den]

if Brits accept this, I'll eat my hat no way..

I'll grind the pepper for you cem.

[cem_devecioglu]

if Brits accept this, I'll eat my hat no way..

I'll grind the pepper for you cem.

 :-?

nope.. I do really believe that you wont accept..

because here if somebody pushes us to accept it ,
its a reason to declare war at least for some of the country :-/

ps : thanks for the EU for not accepting us

[Varche]

Once again I think the anti EU camp (and there are plenty in it) are missing the point.

What is so wrong with a member state being able to insist another member state helps with their enquiries.

Picture this. Say the late Raoul Moat had been a Spaniard here on holiday and had killed a load of folk and then "disappeared". Would you object to The British Police demanding info from Spain? No didn't think so.   

More tabloid rag sensationalism. If only they would do a proper expose on the real waste and cost of the EU.

[cem_devecioglu]

there is nothing wrong with states helping others..

but thats not the case..

and there is something called "red notice" ..used for those kind of situations..

[CaptainZok]

Once again I think the anti EU camp (and there are plenty in it) are missing the point.

What is so wrong with a member state being able to insist another member state helps with their enquiries.

Picture this. Say the late Raoul Moat had been a Spaniard here on holiday and had killed a load of folk and then "disappeared". Would you object to The British Police demanding info from Spain? No didn't think so.   

More tabloid rag sensationalism. If only they would do a proper expose on the real waste and cost of the EU.

Wasn't that why interpol was set up, so the plod could exchange information between different countries?

[Nickbat]

Once again I think the anti EU camp (and there are plenty in it) are missing the point.

What is so wrong with a member state being able to insist another member state helps with their enquiries.

Picture this. Say the late Raoul Moat had been a Spaniard here on holiday and had killed a load of folk and then "disappeared". Would you object to The British Police demanding info from Spain? No didn't think so.   

More tabloid rag sensationalism. If only they would do a proper expose on the real waste and cost of the EU.

The problem is giving foreign forces the legal right to "assist" arrests in this country. The UK force is answerable to the UK government (although, in the light of recent events, one wonders how effective that is  ), but foreign forces are not answerable. Ergo, they should not have a right to undertake tasks in the UK unless requested by the UK government.    

[Varche]

Once again I think the anti EU camp (and there are plenty in it) are missing the point.

What is so wrong with a member state being able to insist another member state helps with their enquiries.

Picture this. Say the late Raoul Moat had been a Spaniard here on holiday and had killed a load of folk and then "disappeared". Would you object to The British Police demanding info from Spain? No didn't think so.   

More tabloid rag sensationalism. If only they would do a proper expose on the real waste and cost of the EU.

I agree completely with your point concerning the staggering costs involved in keeping the Brussels machine up and running.


With regard to States helping others with enquires, I fear that this point holds much more complexity that is readily evident and goes far beyond one merely offering assistance to another in certain matters.

The European Criminal Bar Association (ECBA) has been looking at the ramifications of particular aspects of this proposal and has released several documents to illustrate its concerns;


At present, the ECBA rejects the replacement of the existing laws and rules on mutual assistance in criminal matters and on mutual recognition of evidence in criminal proceedings by a single instrument on the basis of the principle of mutual recognition, inter alia;


Mutual recognition of evidence in criminal proceedings presupposes in particular the existence of binding and enforceable safeguards regarding the collection and the use of evidence.


The ECBA does not believe that a "single regulation" is feasible. There are major differences between different types of evidence. The national rules on Criminal Procedure ensure the legitimacy and integrity of evidence through different means and at different procedural stages. This results in serious problems for the transfer of evidence to another criminal jurisdiction.


On the critical point of evidence gathering/preservation and dissemination, there is presently no homogenised framework that affords the simplified operation of such a proposal.

The attempt to create a single standard to ensure that the integrity of the evidence in question is maintained at the highest possible standard will be exceedingly difficult to do.  If it were to be attempted, I can foresee such challenges to the evidence tendered during the course of a trial rendering the proceedings close to the farcical.

If an illustration were needed to highlight the potential conflict in standards with a local European constabulary investigating a scene and gathering the evidence from it, perhaps if we cast our mind back to the Madeline McCann disappearance in Portugal and the quality of the police investigation into it.

This but one of many practical difficulties within this proposal and its potential adoption only suggests to me that the intention of ‘Brussels’ is to force through any legislation at all, whether well conceived or not, on the myopic road to the Euro super-state.   

Funnily enough I was just about to use that as an example of how our(British) police could have got vital evidence from the local Portuguese police(who after all like most Iberian folk believed that there was something inheritently wrong with parents NOT taking their kids with them to dinner). Things might have been oh so different now for the Mcanns if our polivce could have pressed for more info earlier. The trail cold now.

[Kevin Wood]

If foreign police come over here they won't be able to move for people p*ssing themselves laughing. They all dress like rent boys.

Kevin

[Dishevelled Den]

Once again I think the anti EU camp (and there are plenty in it) are missing the point.

What is so wrong with a member state being able to insist another member state helps with their enquiries.

Picture this. Say the late Raoul Moat had been a Spaniard here on holiday and had killed a load of folk and then "disappeared". Would you object to The British Police demanding info from Spain? No didn't think so.   

More tabloid rag sensationalism. If only they would do a proper expose on the real waste and cost of the EU.

I agree completely with your point concerning the staggering costs involved in keeping the Brussels machine up and running.


With regard to States helping others with enquires, I fear that this point holds much more complexity that is readily evident and goes far beyond one merely offering assistance to another in certain matters.

The European Criminal Bar Association (ECBA) has been looking at the ramifications of particular aspects of this proposal and has released several documents to illustrate its concerns;


At present, the ECBA rejects the replacement of the existing laws and rules on mutual assistance in criminal matters and on mutual recognition of evidence in criminal proceedings by a single instrument on the basis of the principle of mutual recognition, inter alia;


Mutual recognition of evidence in criminal proceedings presupposes in particular the existence of binding and enforceable safeguards regarding the collection and the use of evidence.


The ECBA does not believe that a "single regulation" is feasible. There are major differences between different types of evidence. The national rules on Criminal Procedure ensure the legitimacy and integrity of evidence through different means and at different procedural stages. This results in serious problems for the transfer of evidence to another criminal jurisdiction.


On the critical point of evidence gathering/preservation and dissemination, there is presently no homogenised framework that affords the simplified operation of such a proposal.

The attempt to create a single standard that ensures the integrity of the evidence in question is maintained at the highest possible standard will be exceedingly difficult to do.  If this attempt were successful, I can foresee such challenges to the evidence tendered during the course of a trial being responsible for it being bogged down in protracted legal argument.

If an illustration were needed to highlight the potential conflict in standards with a local European constabulary investigating a scene and gathering the evidence from it, perhaps if we cast our mind back to the Madeline McCann disappearance in Portugal and the quality of the police investigation into it.

This is but one of many practical difficulties within this proposal and its potential adoption only suggests to me that the intention of ‘Brussels’ is to force through any legislation at all, whether well conceived or not, that is considered to be of benefit on the determined, yet myopic, road to the Euro super-state.   

[Dishevelled Den]

Funnily enough I was just about to use that as an example of how our(British) police could have got vital evidence from the local Portuguese police(who after all like most Iberian folk believed that there was something inheritently wrong with parents NOT taking their kids with them to dinner). Things might have been oh so different now for the Mcanns if our polivce could have pressed for more info earlier. The trail cold now.

By the time UK police arrived scene the damage would have been done - from the evidence gathering/preservation aspect - V.

The real problem would have been with who held the lead, in terms of the investigatory strategy.  This, coupled with the practical difficulties in language difference (where clarity of thought and intent are critical factors) shows that this idea would have fragile foundations.

The only way for this proposal to work realistically, in my view, is for there to be a common legal framework and enforcement structure throughout the member states - with all that this implies.