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[Kevin Wood]

Who would pay for the salary INCREASE that they would expect to compensate them for reduction in benefits.?

Why? In my (limited) experience it seems public sector pay is already pretty competitive. It might have once been the case that public sector workers had poor salaries and good benefits but I think the salaries have caught up recently.

They also moan on about their "paltry" 3% annual pay rises, etc. and I'm trying to think of someone I know in the private sector who hasn't had a pay cut, let alone a pay freeze over the last few years. 

Kevin

[Varche]

Who would pay for the salary INCREASE that they would expect to compensate them for reduction in benefits.?

Why? In my (limited) experience it seems public sector pay is already pretty competitive. It might have once been the case that public sector workers had poor salaries and good benefits but I think the salaries have caught up recently.

They also moan on about their "paltry" 3% annual pay rises, etc. and I'm trying to think of someone I know in the private sector who hasn't had a pay cut, let alone a pay freeze over the last few years. 

Kevin

I think you are missing my point. Setting aside the conception mis or otherwise , that public sector workers are over rewarded,

If someone is on a package that is £Xk a year plus an attractive final salary scheme, then if that final salary portion of their package is REDUCED then they could reasonably expect an increase in pay to compensate (so they could invest in a crappy money purchase scheme).

[hotel21]

Public sector pensions do vary and in general, IME, the 'pensioner' only gets back what they pay in.

I read back the thread something along the lines of 2% input by the individual and 14% by the company.  Looks OK for the day to day wage packet to me.

I paid 11% of my top line into my final salary pension from day one, week one.  The employer paid in zero/nada/zilch/nowt.  Not a brass razoo.  Now that I am retired, I now get back my own monies in a monthly cheque.

Actually, thats not quite true.

The monies paid in today by those working for my former employers are actually paying me.  There is no massive slush fund or pot of cash gaining interest anywhere.  Whats deducted on the 10th of the month from theose working is paid out on the 15th to the pensioners....

[cruisetopoland]

Who would pay for the salary INCREASE that they would expect to compensate them for reduction in benefits.?

Why? In my (limited) experience it seems public sector pay is already pretty competitive. It might have once been the case that public sector workers had poor salaries and good benefits but I think the salaries have caught up recently.

They also moan on about their "paltry" 3% annual pay rises, etc. and I'm trying to think of someone I know in the private sector who hasn't had a pay cut, let alone a pay freeze over the last few years. 

Kevin

Six years and no pay rise, just more responsibilities, more travel, more hours etc.

Everything is more expensive now than 6 years ago, so my income has actually reduced considerably 

[Terbs]

One can understand resentment in this country on equality.
For example, years ago, I was involved with starting a company with four others. I never put cash in (was not allowed to buy shares) but held senior management position. We started off budgeting for £66.000 per year turnover, and 18 years later, were turning over in excess of £12 million per year, one of the biggest companies in the area, with a large staff, but with same management.
The three that held the shares sold out to a London group, that consisted of 26 companies, but retained their positions within the company. 2 years later, that group went bust, so our company went with it, with over £2 million of orders on the books.
I received redundancy of £3900, (government limit)....whilst at the same time, to enable closure of pits, the miners were coming out with payments of over £30,000 each.
And why do MP's get such excessive handouts when they cease to be elected.
One rule for one etc etc. 18 years down the drain!!!!!!!!!!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Public pensions are guaranteed.

Mine is based on number of years divide by 60 multiplied by 0.6 times your average salary over the last 5 years less your state pension.

Hence its the. Fctors are what kill it.

The public schemes have better calcs.....simples

[albitz]

Public sector pensions do vary and in general, IME, the 'pensioner' only gets back what they pay in.

I read back the thread something along the lines of 2% input by the individual and 14% by the company.  Looks OK for the day to day wage packet to me.

I paid 11% of my top line into my final salary pension from day one, week one.  The employer paid in zero/nada/zilch/nowt.  Not a brass razoo.  Now that I am retired, I now get back my own monies in a monthly cheque.

Actually, thats not quite true.

The monies paid in today by those working for my former employers are actually paying me.  There is no massive slush fund or pot of cash gaining interest anywhere.  Whats deducted on the 10th of the month from theose working is paid out on the 15th to the pensioners....

Never heard of such ascheme, its normally around 5% input by employee which is matched by the employer. Never heard of any scheme where the employer puts in more than the employee (outside of directors/senior management etc.) :-/

[albitz]

Who would pay for the salary INCREASE that they would expect to compensate them for reduction in benefits.?

Why? In my (limited) experience it seems public sector pay is already pretty competitive. It might have once been the case that public sector workers had poor salaries and good benefits but I think the salaries have caught up recently.

They also moan on about their "paltry" 3% annual pay rises, etc. and I'm trying to think of someone I know in the private sector who hasn't had a pay cut, let alone a pay freeze over the last few years. 

Kevin

I think you are missing my point. Setting aside the conception mis or otherwise , that public sector workers are over rewarded,

If someone is on a package that is £Xk a year plus an attractive final salary scheme, then if that final salary portion of ED then their package is REDUCED they could reasonably expect an increase in pay to compensate (so they could invest in a crappy money purchase scheme).

Why ?.....not a reasonable expectation at all imo. Its based on the assumption that once you have something (a salary level, a standard of living etc.) it can never be taken away. The real world of financial ups and downs (used to be known as boom and bust until the great economist Brown abolished it) cant affect employees? If companies all had to work in that fashion there wouldnt be many of them survive a downturn or drop of in orders.
And in the private sector "crappy money purchase schemes" are pretty much the only option available. We had a private pension industry which was the envy of the world 20 years ago, until Brown taxed it into oblivion and all but destroyed it. 
Personally I believe the public sector should be forced to live in the real world with the rest of us and should have their pensions provided on the same basis as the rest of us. They should put approx 5% of their  salary into a money purchase scheme which would be matched by the taxpayer, and no rise in salary to compensate for the change.
I paid into a final salary scheme for years.One day I recieved a letter from my employer informing me that the scheme was being closed with immediate effect, but I would be given info and assistance on choosing a personal pension plan. Thats the real world. No-one has the right to expect the country to provide them with a certain amount of money come what may imo.

[albitz]

I won't retire before 67 I think, but depends how the brain holds up

[Varche]

Who would pay for the salary INCREASE that they would expect to compensate them for reduction in benefits.?

Why? In my (limited) experience it seems public sector pay is already pretty competitive. It might have once been the case that public sector workers had poor salaries and good benefits but I think the salaries have caught up recently.

They also moan on about their "paltry" 3% annual pay rises, etc. and I'm trying to think of someone I know in the private sector who hasn't had a pay cut, let alone a pay freeze over the last few years. 

Kevin

I think you are missing my point. Setting aside the conception mis or otherwise , that public sector workers are over rewarded,

If someone is on a package that is £Xk a year plus an attractive final salary scheme, then if that final salary portion of ED then their package is REDUCED they could reasonably expect an increase in pay to compensate (so they could invest in a crappy money purchase scheme).

Why ?.....not a reasonable expectation at all imo. Its based on the assumption that once you have something (a salary level, a standard of living etc.) it can never be taken away. The real world of financial ups and downs (used to be known as boom and bust until the great economist Brown abolished it) cant affect employees? If companies all had to work in that fashion there wouldnt be many of them survive a downturn or drop of in orders.
And in the private sector "crappy money purchase schemes" are pretty much the only option available. We had a private pension industry which was the envy of the world 20 years ago, until Brown taxed it into oblivion and all but destroyed it. 

In addition to the government taxing pensions (The Condems haven't abolished it so they are as bad), You forgot as well that the financial sectors charges for administering the crappy money purchase schemes also ate into them. Plus the performance was often no better than if a chimp had picked the investments! Bloodsuckers.

[hotel21]

Public sector pensions do vary and in general, IME, the 'pensioner' only gets back what they pay in.

I read back the thread something along the lines of 2% input by the individual and 14% by the company.  Looks OK for the day to day wage packet to me.

I paid 11% of my top line into my final salary pension from day one, week one.  The employer paid in zero/nada/zilch/nowt.  Not a brass razoo.  Now that I am retired, I now get back my own monies in a monthly cheque.

Actually, thats not quite true.

The monies paid in today by those working for my former employers are actually paying me.  There is no massive slush fund or pot of cash gaining interest anywhere.  Whats deducted on the 10th of the month from theose working is paid out on the 15th to the pensioners....

Never heard of such ascheme, its normally around 5% input by employee which is matched by the employer. Never heard of any scheme where the employer puts in more than the employee (outside of directors/senior management etc.) :-/

I remembered marks quote wrong.

.... I pay 6% into my pension and my employer 14%,....

Still a fair percentage input though....

[albitz]

Im no fan of the Condems but they cant abolish it at present due to the fact that the previous lot left the country beyond bankrupt.
As for the returns on various schemes - depends which funds you choose to invest with, and how much time and effort you want to put into it. its reasonably possible to get very good returns indeed, even at the present time, but it needs a lot of legwork so to speak. I would recommend having a look at Hargreaves Landsdown  funds as a good starting point.

[albitz]

Public sector pensions do vary and in general, IME, the 'pensioner' only gets back what they pay in.

I read back the thread something along the lines of 2% input by the individual and 14% by the company.  Looks OK for the day to day wage packet to me.

I paid 11% of my top line into my final salary pension from day one, week one.  The employer paid in zero/nada/zilch/nowt.  Not a brass razoo.  Now that I am retired, I now get back my own monies in a monthly cheque.

Actually, thats not quite true.

The monies paid in today by those working for my former employers are actually paying me.  There is no massive slush fund or pot of cash gaining interest anywhere.  Whats deducted on the 10th of the month from theose working is paid out on the 15th to the pensioners....

Never heard of such ascheme, its normally around 5% input by employee which is matched by the employer. Never heard of any scheme where the employer puts in more than the employee (outside of directors/senior management etc.) :-/

I remembered marks quote wrong.

.... I pay 6% into my pension and my employer 14%,....

Still a fair percentage input though....

Agreed. ......very unusual in my experience, unless Mark is a senior manager or director ? :-/

[Varche]

Im no fan of the Condems but they cant abolish it at present due to the fact that the previous lot left the country beyond bankrupt.
As for the returns on various schemes - depends which funds you choose to invest with, and how much time and effort you want to put into it. its reasonably possible to get very good returns indeed, even at the present time, but it needs a lot of legwork so to speak. I would recommend having a look at Hargreaves Landsdown  funds as a good starting point.

smoke and mirrors

IF this or any other government thought it important enough they could abolish it and save money elsewhere. e.g. weapons spend. The plain fact is they don't care. if they did the state pension would be a satisfactory level and not the WORST in Europe. Not much cause for national pride there is there.?

The point about private pension funds is that most people who are saving money in a pension are too busy working to spend their time checking fund performances or how much is being deducted in "management fees, account management, half yearly fees, etc etc". If they were that savvy then they would be fund managers and not whatever other job they are doing.

Thanks for the tip though. I've sold pork bellies and invested in Hargreaves lansdownes.

[Matchless]

Public sector pensions do vary and in general, IME, the 'pensioner' only gets back what they pay in.

I read back the thread something along the lines of 2% input by the individual and 14% by the company.  Looks OK for the day to day wage packet to me.

I paid 11% of my top line into my final salary pension from day one, week one.  The employer paid in zero/nada/zilch/nowt.  Not a brass razoo.  Now that I am retired, I now get back my own monies in a monthly cheque.

Actually, thats not quite true.

The monies paid in today by those working for my former employers are actually paying me.  There is no massive slush fund or pot of cash gaining interest anywhere.  Whats deducted on the 10th of the month from theose working is paid out on the 15th to the pensioners....

Never heard of such ascheme, its normally around 5% input by employee which is matched by the employer. Never heard of any scheme where the employer puts in more than the employee (outside of directors/senior management etc.) :-/

I remembered marks quote wrong.

.... I pay 6% into my pension and my employer 14%,....

Still a fair percentage input though....

Mark's employer is having to pay in extra cash to plug the huge deficit caused by Lord Weinstocks sticky fingers.