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Author Topic: Who runs our country?  (Read 5255 times)

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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #45 on: 11 October 2010, 14:40:18 »

You two should get a room stop all the bickering lol ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #46 on: 11 October 2010, 14:45:29 »

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You two should get a room stop all the bickering lol ;D ;D ;D ;)


We could never get a room big enough!! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #47 on: 11 October 2010, 14:48:36 »

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Quote
You two should get a room stop all the bickering lol ;D ;D ;D ;)


We could never get a room big enough!! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)


Is that because you end up killing him then Lizzie lol ;D ;D ;D   ::) ::)
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Nickbat

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #48 on: 11 October 2010, 14:49:08 »

Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)


« Last Edit: 11 October 2010, 14:49:50 by Nickbat »
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #49 on: 11 October 2010, 14:52:18 »

How long is this thread going to go for you two... Ever as it seams ;D ;D ;D
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Nickbat

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #50 on: 11 October 2010, 14:53:59 »

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You two should get a room stop all the bickering lol ;D ;D ;D ;)

Bickering, Maria?

If the EU decided to impose a 20p/gallon tax rise on petrol, who would you complain to?

There is no one in the UK that would listen and even if they did listen, there would be nothing they could do about it anyway.

It may seem like bickering to you, but I for one, care about who controls our lives.  ;)
« Last Edit: 11 October 2010, 14:54:45 by Nickbat »
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #51 on: 11 October 2010, 15:02:19 »

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Quote
You two should get a room stop all the bickering lol ;D ;D ;D ;)

Bickering, Maria?

If the EU decided to impose a 20p/petrol, who would a gallon tax rise on you complain to?
There is no one in the UK that would listen and even if they did listen, there would be nothing they could do about it anyway.

It may seem like bickering to you, but I for one, care about who controls our lives.  ;)


So do i but your like to kids in a play ground, and for the rise for petrol well that dont affect me as i dont drive or have a car so i dont really care but all the rises they put up like the cost of living then yeah i am concerned about and there's no good going on about it is there wont getyou know where
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #52 on: 11 October 2010, 15:08:19 »

Quote
Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)




No, no, I am talking about a rogue state going the way of past war creators.  I am making the point that between the choice of war in a single state EU system and a USE, I will always choose the peaceful option and become a Federalist (as you raised it!).  In other words we must avoid war at all costs, the reason why the UN and EU were created in the first place after the failure of the League of Nations! ;) ;)
« Last Edit: 11 October 2010, 15:09:38 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #53 on: 11 October 2010, 15:10:46 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)




No, no, I am talking about a rogue state going the way of past war creators.  I am making the point that between the choice of war in a single state EU system and a USE, I will always choose the peaceful option and become a Federalist (as you raised it!).  In other words we must avoid war at all costs, the reason why the UN and EU were created in the first place after the failure of the League of Nations! ;) ;)

Thanks for putting him right Lizzie as someone had too :y ;D
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #54 on: 11 October 2010, 15:12:52 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)




No, no, I am talking about a rogue state going the way of past war creators.  I am making the point that between the choice of war in a single state EU system and a USE, I will always choose the peaceful option and become a Federalist (as you raised it!).  In other words we must avoid war at all costs, the reason why the UN and EU were created in the first place after the failure of the League of Nations! ;) ;)

Thanks for putting him right Lizzie as someone had too :y ;D


I try Maria, I try!! ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;)
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #55 on: 11 October 2010, 15:15:32 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)




No, no, I am talking about a rogue state going the way of past war creators.  I am making the point that between the choice of war in a single state EU system and a USE, I will always choose the peaceful option and become a Federalist (as you raised it!).  In other words we must avoid war at all costs, the reason why the UN and EU were created in the first place after the failure of the League of Nations! ;) ;)

Thanks for putting him right Lizzie as someone had too :y ;D


I try Maria, I try!! ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;)

That's all you can do is try but you know men they are bloody stubborn at times or shall i say all the time and they say we are stubborn they are worse ;D ;D ;D ;D : ::) ::) ::)
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #56 on: 11 October 2010, 15:42:33 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Stay within the EU and we can change it.
Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it.


Quote
The EU is a collection of national states and does need strong government to control the actions of each and everyone.  It does not need to be a "State", but it can and should be the collection of European countries it is; that way we can all be strong and defend our interests whilst working for the common good of all people.

Like interfering in our rate of petrol duty? (Original point of thread). ::) ::)


Quote
However, if it is ever a choice between a single state and war due to a rogue nation within another system, I am a Federalist!!!   The reasons I think I have covered in my first post in this thread, and I hold by them.


So if we get out of the EU, become a Switzerland or Norway and decide our own laws, that makes us a rogue state, does it?  :o :o ::)




No, no, I am talking about a rogue state going the way of past war creators.  I am making the point that between the choice of war in a single state EU system and a USE, I will always choose the peaceful option and become a Federalist (as you raised it!).  In other words we must avoid war at all costs, the reason why the UN and EU were created in the first place after the failure of the League of Nations! ;) ;)

Thanks for putting him right Lizzie as someone had too :y ;D


I try Maria, I try!! ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;)

That's all you can do is try but you know men they are bloody stubborn at times or shall i say all the time and they say we are stubborn they are worse ;D ;D ;D ;D : ::) ::) ::)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  All sooooo true Maria!! :y :y :y :y

The  strange thing is the men of today seem to lack the spine of those of yesterday!  I said:

"Stay within the EU and we can change it."

Nick replied: "Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it."   What!!!

Did the men at Agincourt say that to Henry V in 1415, or the Barons forcing King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215?  Did either Admiral Nelson, or Vice Admiral Collingwood  say that as they both approached the lines of the combined French and Spanish fleets on the morning of 21st Oct. 1805?  Did the leaders of the Chartists in the 1840s say they couldn't change it? Did Churchill say he couldn't change Asquith's mind in 1908 in introducing social reform at the expense of building two more Dreadnoughts?  Did the RAF Fighter pilots of No.11 group say they couldn't do it during 1940? Did Tony Blair give up on the Northern Ireland Peace Process in 1989?

No to all, as English / British men who were strong, and did not use the word "impossible", were determined to change what was!

So together we can change the EU to be what we want.  Or have we forgotten how to do such things, and instead run into corners and meekly whisper "NO" to everything?!

If so we have forgotten how to be British!!

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)


« Last Edit: 11 October 2010, 15:52:54 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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maria

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #57 on: 11 October 2010, 15:45:40 »

Well said , I totally agree with you Lizzie :y
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Nickbat

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #58 on: 11 October 2010, 16:30:06 »

Quote
The  strange thing is the men of today seem to lack the spine of those of yesterday!  I said:

"Stay within the EU and we can change it."

Nick replied: "Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it."   What!!!

Did the men at Agincourt say that to Henry V in 1415, or the Barons forcing King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215?  Did either Admiral Nelson, or Vice Admiral Collingwood  say that as they both approached the lines of the combined French and Spanish fleets on the morning of 21st Oct. 1805?  Did the leaders of the Chartists in the 1840s say they couldn't change it? Did Churchill say he couldn't change Asquith's mind in 1908 in introducing social reform at the expense of building two more Dreadnoughts?  Did the RAF Fighter pilots of No.11 group say they couldn't do it during 1940? Did Tony Blair give up on the Northern Ireland Peace Process in 1989?

No to all, as English / British men who were strong, and did not use the word "impossible", were determined to change what was!

So together we can change the EU to be what we want.  Or have we forgotten how to do such things, and instead run into corners and meekly whisper "NO" to everything?!

If so we have forgotten how to be British!!

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)


A bizarre argument. You use glowing examples of military bravery to argue that we can change the EU, but then go on to say war must be avoided at all costs. Huh?

We have a situation in which we have no power to challenge the EU successfully (and certainly not the will power with the current bunch in Westminster). Then you have the brazen cheek to suggest that I am not a real man if I dare to suggest that we are up the legislative creek!

Incredible.  :o :o

I'm off for a lie-down. ;) :D
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Lizzie_Zoom

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Re: Who runs our country?
« Reply #59 on: 11 October 2010, 17:07:28 »

Quote
Quote
The  strange thing is the men of today seem to lack the spine of those of yesterday!  I said:

"Stay within the EU and we can change it."

Nick replied: "Absolute pipe dream. We cannot change it."   What!!!

Did the men at Agincourt say that to Henry V in 1415, or the Barons forcing King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215?  Did either Admiral Nelson, or Vice Admiral Collingwood  say that as they both approached the lines of the combined French and Spanish fleets on the morning of 21st Oct. 1805?  Did the leaders of the Chartists in the 1840s say they couldn't change it? Did Churchill say he couldn't change Asquith's mind in 1908 in introducing social reform at the expense of building two more Dreadnoughts?  Did the RAF Fighter pilots of No.11 group say they couldn't do it during 1940? Did Tony Blair give up on the Northern Ireland Peace Process in 1989?

No to all, as English / British men who were strong, and did not use the word "impossible", were determined to change what was!

So together we can change the EU to be what we want.  Or have we forgotten how to do such things, and instead run into corners and meekly whisper "NO" to everything?!

If so we have forgotten how to be British!!

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)


A bizarre argument. You use glowing examples of military bravery to argue that we can change the EU, but then go on to say war must be avoided at all costs. Huh?

We have a situation in which we have no power to challenge the EU successfully (and certainly not the will power with the current bunch in Westminster). Then you have the brazen cheek to suggest that I am not a real man if I dare to suggest that we are up the legislative creek!

Incredible.  :o :o

I'm off for a lie-down. ;) :D


Yes, I was expecting that Nick! ::) ::) ::)

Those were different days with different ways, when gunboat and hang em from the yard arm diplomacy ruled, before there were international organizations, like the UN and EU, that could stop one country acting in a war like fashion against another.  That I think helps to prove my point.  We need the EU, otherwise we go back to those days of warre warre, just as Hobbes described! But in the context of the time those men, although committed to war, stood up and achieved the "impossible".  Also I described achievements by politicians such as Churchill and Blair who secured advancement of policy as a peaceful group, ignoring political boundaries and jealousies (Churchill especially).  They achieved against the odds, changing circumstances to their advantage, never saying it was all "a pipe dream"!! 

Stay as a little group and you will not achieve such goals, but together with other human beings, even of different political persuasions, massive advancements against all odds can be made.

I am sorry you took offence at the weak men jibe, but really, to listen to the arguments on here against the EU really reminds me of tiny disenchanted groups in the playground, not men who are ready to meet political challenges head on and creating a system that meets the majority of ALL our needs. 

Bluntly, stop whining and winging about it, get off all your backsides, and do something about it as men (and women) did in the past ;) ;) ;) if you want to change the situation!!
« Last Edit: 11 October 2010, 17:13:33 by Lizzie_Zoom »
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