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[jereboam]

This is a ludicrous argument.  Killing isn't humane, however you do it.  Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat).  It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu). 

Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering.  And fishing and gutting for that matter.  Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed.  To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf.  Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.

On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability.  Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals.  They don't just roam wild, for the most part.

I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one.  It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles.  Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either.

[geoffr70]

yes entwood certain meats cost more to produce, IF the letter of the law is followed, i however suspect that it isn't, especially halal, when people get pound signs in their eyes

[hotel21]

To get back to the original post and question posed, I'm afraid that I really have no thoughts one way or the other.  I am a meat eater.  Once its packaged for sale then, as long as poison or other substance thats harmfull to my health has not been used, I will happily cooka nd eat as and when I want.

And yes, I enjoy seafood, mussels and lobster/crab specifically included....

Bottom line is, not bothered either way...

[Nickbat]

As previously asked .. and ignored it seems ....  just why would they do this  

Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.

Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines ....  again

E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:

Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.

The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.

[Entwood]

As previously asked .. and ignored it seems ....  just why would they do this  

Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.

Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines ....  again

E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:

Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.

The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.

I did read that Nick .. but I have a passionate hatred (and dis-belief) of lines like  ...  "Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following..."  much the same as "A Government spokesperson" or "our defence correspondent"

Having been in the Forces for many years .. I know that many of these "sources" are simply overheard conversations in pubs. I would also ask, what (if he DOES exist) makes Dr North .. "a specialist" ; and is it actually in this field ?? (if a "field" for slaughter exists .... )   

Cynical ?? yup .. thats me .. everytime   

[Varche]

Thats it then sorted. We don't give a damn where meat comes from, how it was raised or even how it was killed.

Like the kids of today say. Milk? where does it come from? Well a supermarket , stupid!

[geoffr70]

This is a ludicrous argument.  Killing isn't humane, however you do it.  Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat).  It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu). 

Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering.  And fishing and gutting for that matter.  Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed.  To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf.  Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.

On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability.  Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals.  They don't just roam wild, for the most part.

I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one.  It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles.  Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either.

This shows a little bit of ignorance i think. Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.

If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.

Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!

[Dishevelled Den]

 Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.

If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.

Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!

For the most part I must again agree with Geoff here.

[Mysteryman]

We seem to have split into four groups here:
Those who don't like the thought of eating halal because of the cruelty aspect of the slaughter, those who don't like the religious connotations, those who don't eat meat anyway and those who couldn't care how their food was killed.

But Nick was only asking whether we should be informed of how the meat was slaughtered and I think we should.

[Martin_1962]

As previously asked .. and ignored it seems ....  just why would they do this  

Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.

Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines ....  again

E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:

Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.

The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.

Perhaps it is killed ordinarily and they lie about the HalHal

[Martin_1962]

This is a ludicrous argument.  Killing isn't humane, however you do it.  Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat).  It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu). 

Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering.  And fishing and gutting for that matter.  Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed.  To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf.  Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.

On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability.  Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals.  They don't just roam wild, for the most part.

I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one.  It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles.  Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either.

Hmm the Jewish people I know eat whatever they want including ham & bacon, and one lad has not been done.

[Martin_1962]

Most of our meat is from a local butcher, non butcher comes AFAIK from a large meat procesor which is not Halhal.

[Nickbat]

Most of our meat is from a local butcher, non butcher comes AFAIK from a large meat procesor which is not Halhal.

You mean they still exist? 

[geoffr70]

don't worry mate, my posts get ignored all the time hahaha

halal meat, stoning women, honour killings..... and our country bows down to these backward and barbaric people.

world's crazy!!!!!

with you on this one!

[jereboam]

This is a ludicrous argument.  Killing isn't humane, however you do it.  Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat).  It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu). 

Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering.  And fishing and gutting for that matter.  Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed.  To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf.  Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.

On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability.  Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals.  They don't just roam wild, for the most part.

I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one.  It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles.  Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either.

This shows a little bit of ignorance i think. Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.

If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.

Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!

I'm not sure I like to be patronised, but ignoring that, in what way I am I showing ignorance? 

My point is that I consider it far worse to terminate the existence of a creature than to cause it pain in the act of terminating it's existence.  I know that in order to provide my meat, animals have to be killed, and although I'm not completely happy about this, I accept it. 

I think that if I could continue to live the life I lead now, but had to kill meat animals myself, I'd become a vegetarian.  I also think that in the (highly improbable) eventuality that I was in a survival situation where I had no alternative but to kill animals for food or starve to death, I would have no compunction whatsoever in killing anything I could kill by whatever means I could contrive.

I don't think I am either barbaric or cruel.  The comment I made about it not mattering how the animal is killed needs to be taken in the context of the  discussion, which is to say, the comparison between religious ritual slaughter and "humane" slaughter.  I do not generally condone the torture of animals, but I am not sentimental about them either.  And I value the life of any human being, "selfish self serving idiot" or otherwise, above that of any animal, "magnificent creature" or otherwise. 

I have no experience of slaughterhouses, so I stand open to corrrection on what I am about to say.  It is my understanding that in this country, and many others, good practice ensures that animals are not subjected to the sight of other animals being killed.  This is partly for humane reasons, and partly for commercial reasons, because inducing fear in livestock releases hormones which reduce the quality of the meat.  I doubt very much whether any animal has experienced more fear bcause it has worked out that it will have it's throat cut rather than be stunned or have its brain destroyed (if it is lucky) by the use of a captive bolt gun.  It just smells the blood of the animals that went before, and it's survival instincts take over.