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[24_Valve]

Should we ever stop farming our own meat we'd only import it & still eat it

No, not at all... and I'm all for the countryside! Sadly most halal meat doesn't come from our Great British countryside and won't be slaughtered according british standards, (not that our standards are necessarily humane) which is why we should have the right to know what we're buying... I think this was the OP's general point... nothing to do with religion as far as I can see, but I can only speak for myself 

[geoffr70]

Amigo you seem to be suggesting that the sole reason for the existence of animals is for humans to eat. I don't agree with this, and IMO it reflects the sickening arrogance that sone members of the human race have, especially towards animals.

Yes we live in a developed and complex Eco system, engineered somewhat by humans, but it is my view that this evolved, there was no intelligent design or creation, therefore the existence of animals is for life itself, the same reason why humans exist. So they don't exist purely for our consumption. We happen to be at the top of the food chain (for want of a better expression), that's just the way it happened.

Animals have a right to life the same as us, as said just because they aren't as intelligent doesn't mean they should be treated any worse. It is their planet and their home aswell. When a surfer gets chewed by a shark, it's a shame. I don't want it to happen, but that's the nature of the beast, and if you venture into its territory, that's what you expect. It shouldn't be hunted down and killed just because humans want to surf. The same goes for man eating big cats etc, when humans encroach on their area.

I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.

[Amigo]

Amigo you seem to be suggesting that the sole reason for the existence of animals is for humans to eat. I don't agree with this, and IMO it reflects the sickening arrogance that sone members of the human race have, especially towards animals.

Yes we live in a developed and complex Eco system, engineered somewhat by humans, but it is my view that this evolved, there was no intelligent design or creation, therefore the existence of animals is for life itself, the same reason why humans exist. So they don't exist purely for our consumption. We happen to be at the top of the food chain (for want of a better expression), that's just the way it happened.

Animals have a right to life the same as us, as said just because they aren't as intelligent doesn't mean they should be treated any worse. It is their planet and their home aswell. When a surfer gets chewed by a shark, it's a shame. I don't want it to happen, but that's the nature of the beast, and if you venture into its territory, that's what you expect. It shouldn't be hunted down and killed just because humans want to surf. The same goes for man eating big cats etc, when humans encroach on their area.

I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.

With you on the shark bit, thier territory if i surf & get a leg chewed off or worse fair go. No i'd never eat a pet of course not but herd farmed livestock are bred for our consumption & let's face it most of us "consume" don't blame me for that. If we did'nt "consume" herds & farms would'nt exist. Not fair to say i think all animals are here to be eaten. don't put words into my mouth, i never said that. God i hate being second guessed. You argue like a wife for crying out loud be a bloke. When did you last see some one walk thier pet pig/cow/sheep in the park? It's a simple point. Stop trying to pick round it. We eat meat. Halal meat is a religious thing like it or not. Not my opinion it just is.
    Who cares when it's on the plate? MOST OF YOU EAT IT.

[geoffr70]

Thanks for your comments 24 valve!

I agree with 24 valve and nickbat with regard to children working in sweatshops, but, one could argue that at least they have jobs. Please bear with me!

Yes, capitalism isn't perfect by any means, these people have jobs to support themselves (just). If we paid more the greedy multi national companies will swallow it up.  But I suppose all systems are open yo abusive due to the failings of human beings. Not saying i'm perfect.

It's taking a hell of a long time but eventually the wealth and living standards across the world sill be alot more evenly shared and balanced than now. Take China, their increasing standard of living, means they need more money. They sell stuff to us, the price goes up, we have less money. A very crude way of putting it I know, but that's what I think could happen across the globe.

Capitalism is open to abuse, just as totalitarianism is, and communism, and socialism, where the 'leaders' still have the best of everything. At least capitalism encourages enterprise, gives people drive and motivation and rewards hard work. Not saying it's perfect.

[geoffr70]

No amigo I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. I don't argue like a woman or a wife or whatever it was you said. I live by a set of standard that I don't deviate from, especially not to satisfy my own greed or wants.

You are obviously still missing my entire point. I can only encourage you to read it again. You are saying herds are there only for our consumption, and making the distinction between herd/farm animals, and pets.

I have made no such distinction. I liken them. They all have a life. The only difference is, is that we selfishly choose to use different animals in different ways that are more useful to us. Cows to eat, dogs to work and pet etc, as an example.

[jereboam]

I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.

Just out of interest, what do you feed your pet dog on?

[Del Boy]

Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.

Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.

[Pitchfork]

I've heard it said that Homo Sapiens evolved as a Vegetarian hence our very long gut system (circa 40') in order to give food time to be digested

[alfie]

Del Boy,I agree with you 100%,as you say if you were in a muslim country you would not get the option.

[Terbs]

Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.

Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.

I could not have worded it better Well done Del Boy

[Chris_H]

Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.

Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.

...OOF being international as it's in t'internet of course!

[Del Boy]

Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.

Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.

...OOF being international as it's in t'internet of course!

Point well made 

[cem_devecioglu]

Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.

Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way.

thats the critical part and the truth.. if things continue like that you will be outnumbered (like us here) as birth rates are different and one day you will see some people shout 5 o'clock in the morning..

And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc
If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.

[aaronjb]

And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc

Wow this is really heading off topic into religion bashing, now, but..

You realise the Mosque is actually a community center (open to all faiths and non-faithed people alike) containing a Mosque, and wasn't actually on the site of the WTC at all?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html

Anyhoo.. back to meat..

[cem_devecioglu]

And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc

Wow this is really heading off topic into religion bashing, now, but..

You realise the Mosque is actually a community center (open to all faiths and non-faithed people alike) containing a Mosque, and wasn't actually on the site of the WTC at all?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html

Anyhoo.. back to meat..

 

I'm living between many of them..

And I have the chance of listening what is told to the community on friday 13 pm..

things are very different inside, but of course not that visible from outside..