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[kevinminton]

Lizzie

Then we have a fundamental disagreement here. I am completely unable to support your POV. Some may  find it a potentially dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

K

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie

Then we have a fundamental disagreement here. I am completely unable to support your POV. Some may  find it a potentially dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

K

Fair enough Kevin, but there is no abdication of personal responsibility, but an acceptence that there are forces that decide the outcome of everything we do whether we like it or not!  Our contract with life if you like!

[kevinminton]

Such a contract would be void through uncertainty!

Life is given to us without asking (presumably accepted by conduct); taken away with no payment made. Void through lack of consideration?
 

[jonnycool]

Lizzie

Then we have a fundamental disagreement here. I am completely unable to support your POV. Some may  find it a potentially dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

K

I agree actually, if everybody took a bit of care on the road instead of talking into their bloody phones and texting, then 'fate' would deal a whole lot more people a better hand.

I do understand what you're saying Lizzie, we'll all die eventually and life would be boring if we didn't take a few risks but don't involve the general public in your risk-taking 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Lizzie

Then we have a fundamental disagreement here. I am completely unable to support your POV. Some may  find it a potentially dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

K

I agree actually, if everybody took a bit of care on the road instead of talking into their bloody phones and texting, then 'fate' would deal a whole lot more people a better hand.

I do understand what you're saying Lizzie, we'll all die eventually and life would be boring if we didn't take a few risks but don't involve the general public in your risk-taking 

But I do not, no more than you and everyone who takes their car onto a road!

I am not saying you deliberately go out and do 100 mph through the local town centre.  What I am saying is regardless of what you think you are doing, what actually happens is not under your overall control.  Yes most times we go out in our cars, drive normally and nothing seems to happen.  Then one day you do exactly the same, only to find on a bend someone who has lost control due to a heart attack and hits you head on, killing everyone in your car.  What could you have done to avoid that?  Nothing!!  It was destined to happen, as your initial conception and birth was!

That is our lives, and the death that will come no matter how "safe" you play it!  No risk  taking, no speeding, no careless driving, but you end up deceased as the Lord has decided before your birth.  Never think all is under your control as it is not, but I will not add to the examples I  have given previously in terms of personal experience and that of others around me, let alone in general history, but it is all there to read all too clearly.

[cem_devecioglu]

Raising the speed limit on motorways wouldnt be a bad thing as far as I am converned, sadly the standard of motoring in britain today couldnt cope with it.

Too many selfish drivers on the motorway, lane hogging or rubbing bumpers trying to get past you.

If a secondry test had to be taken to be able to drive on the motorway then 60% of todays drivers would fail it.

on most of our urban roads speed limit is 70 km/hr where there is 4 lanes and 50 km/hr where there is 2-3 lanes.. No way I could obey this..  :-? if I try that some truck or tanker will pass over me.. 

so my life is more important than some ***** 5 points and money

[Debs.]

No.....!!!!

When I was nowt but a 'teen'; riding my Seeley-Honda 750.....I ran-over and killed a young dog.
I was going far-too fast and the dog bolted away from it`s young owners, right over the road and I hit it square in the back (nearly cutting the poor mite in`two)........the sight, sounds and manner of that little one`s violent and agonising death has stayed with me and I doubt if the regret, sadness and guilt will ever go away (yes, even all these years later).....it might so easily have been a person or child that I killed as the result of selfishness.
I know for sure that, had I been attending to the (perfectly reasonable) speed limit in force at the time, I might`ve easily stopped/avoided the dog.

So, no!....I don`t speed, show-off, use the phone (or eat) whilst driving and abhor, such selfish and impatient driving as seems common these days.

Please, save the speed, bravado and adrenaline for track days and motor-sport/rally events.....or you too, may live to regret it.

[Shackeng]

Lizzie, my concern with your argument is that it appears to fail to disintinguish between those who "live life to the full" by taking risks with their own life, eg hang gliding; and those who for the sake of a few moments of excitement on the public road, take risks with other peoples' lives.

The comparisons of death through war and cancer or other illness do not have any relevance.

K

Hear Hear.

[Shackeng]

Lizzie

Are you suggesting that (for example) the death of a cyclist is down to "unwritten laws" and the hand of fate, and nothing to do with the deliberate actions of some body driving too fast?

Kevin (not Ken )

Yes!   Fate put the cyclist there, it made that person be at that particular place, at that time, on that date, just as the car was fated to be on the same spot, with the rest of the  road perhaps clear, but the collision happened "as planned".  The death of the cyclist would have a  fated knock on effect, that can change history for those around that person; cause, effect, and consequence comes into the equation fully, with the motorists life also changed by the momentum of the "scheduled" event.  Life, or death, decided by fate and God.

Throughout mans history that pattern has been there, and gives rise to the if's, maybe's, could have beens, and should have been of counter factual history.  One bullet, one action of man, one event, that on the face of it appears to be "man made", will become a  situation where people will say "that was fated; it was meant to happen!" It is in fact God's will to ensure the destiny of his children and the world is fulfilled.

I hope you are not serious Lizzie, if so, then I suggest that you take some tablets. :-? :-? :-?

[hercules]

from what im reading here if some numpty is screaming down the road and loses control mounts the pavement and kills a mother two kids and a baby in a pram its gods work...im sorry l z but i do believe in a slight bit of fate and destiny but there is far more self infliction out there by human error

[Darth Loo-knee]

No. . . speeding is for people making up for the loss in their pants. . 

[albitz]

No.....!!!!

When I was nowt but a 'teen'; riding my Seeley-Honda 750.....I ran-over and killed a young dog.
I was going far-too fast and the dog bolted away from it`s young owners, right over the road and I hit it square in the back (nearly cutting the poor mite in`two)........the sight, sounds and manner of that little one`s violent and agonising death has stayed with me and I doubt if the regret, sadness and guilt will ever go away (yes, even all these years later).....it might so easily have been a person or child that I killed as the result of selfishness.
I know for sure that, had I been attending to the (perfectly reasonable) speed limit in force at the time, I might`ve easily stopped/avoided the dog.

So, no!....I don`t speed, show-off, use the phone (or eat) whilst driving and abhor, such selfish and impatient driving as seems common these days.

Please, save the speed, bravado and adrenaline for track days and motor-sport/rally events.....or you too, may live to regret it.

I know a bloke who has had one of those sat in his garage in bits for the last 15 years.

[jonnycool]

Lizzie

Then we have a fundamental disagreement here. I am completely unable to support your POV. Some may  find it a potentially dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

K

I agree actually, if everybody took a bit of care on the road instead of talking into their bloody phones and texting, then 'fate' would deal a whole lot more people a better hand.

I do understand what you're saying Lizzie, we'll all die eventually and life would be boring if we didn't take a few risks but don't involve the general public in your risk-taking 

But I do not, no more than you and everyone who takes their car onto a road!

I am not saying you deliberately go out and do 100 mph through the local town centre.  What I am saying is regardless of what you think you are doing, what actually happens is not under your overall control.  Yes most times we go out in our cars, drive normally and nothing seems to happen.  Then one day you do exactly the same, only to find on a bend someone who has lost control due to a heart attack and hits you head on, killing everyone in your car.  What could you have done to avoid that?  Nothing!!  It was destined to happen, as your initial conception and birth was!

That is our lives, and the death that will come no matter how "safe" you play it!  No risk  taking, no speeding, no careless driving, but you end up deceased as the Lord has decided before your birth.  Never think all is under your control as it is not, but I will not add to the examples I  have given previously in terms of personal experience and that of others around me, let alone in general history, but it is all there to read all too clearly.

I bet the vast majority of the people killed on the roads lost their lives due to human error and carelessness, and only a few due to unavoidable circumstances. This is the point I was making, and as you rightly said, we risk our lives from the moment we're born.

If I was to die in a genuine accident, then so be it, but if I die due to some idiot texting, I'll come back and haunt them for the rest of their stupid lives

[Darth Loo-knee]

Can you not text with your left hand then if you have an auto?

[hercules]

yer know something..saying its gods work and so on that someone dies as a result of somebodies actions if thats supposed to be christian(i dont know what faith you follow lz)but it tallies up with these foreign friends of ours that think its normal to strap bombs to your chest and set them off in a busy public place...religion has so much to answer for