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[Nickbat]

Take a look at this junction:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Northcote+Road+and+Battersea+Rise&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&sll=51.460558,-0.167209&sspn=0.001808,0.004233&rq=1&ev=zi&split=1&filter=0&radius=0.11&hq=Northcote+Road+and+Battersea+Rise&hnear=&ll=51.460846,-0.167069&spn=0.001808,0.004233&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.460684,-0.166976&panoid=JntCZhtsJSfBhghk1CgH2w&cbp=12,355.78,,0,9.01

9,000 drivers were snapped by CCTV cameras when they found themselves stuck in the middle of junction, and were promptly sent a fine for £120. Motorists were further enraged to find out that experts from the Government and TfL were aware that the junction was confusing and likely to catch drivers out. A Department for Transport official signed off permission for the box on the A3 after stating drivers could be “left in a somewhat awkward situation."

http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2011/04/tfl-have-a-new-favourite-cash-point-in-wandsworth.html#comments

What is the world coming to? £1m in fines at a junction that no-one understands?

Grrrrr....

[Miggylover]

Clever little money earner that.

[millwall]

been caught there before  that junction is a nightmare and theres plenty more like it in london

[Entwood]

Well I've looked at that link for 5 minutes, run up and down it using google earth .. and can see no problems ...  Its a staggered crossroads with box markings.

Only 3 possible exits. You know which exit you wish to take.. if it is blocked don't enter the box. End of.

As I was once told .. box junctions only make all drivers do what good drivers do without question ... don't enter a junction without somewhere to go.

I cannot see how that junction has taken so much money .. unless all the drivers in the town are complete planks.

[Nickbat]

I disagree, E. You are at the lights wishing to turn left, as per the Google photo, and one car is ahead of you. There are no vehicles in sight, as far as you can see. The car in front moves off and you follow. As soon as you get round the corner, the car in front stops due to congestion and you are forced to stop in the box, like a patsy...just waiting for the £120 fine. 

[millwall]

Well I've looked at that link for 5 minutes, run up and down it using google earth .. and can see no problems ...  Its a staggered crossroads with box markings.

Only 3 possible exits. You know which exit you wish to take.. if it is blocked don't enter the box. End of.

As I was once told .. box junctions only make all drivers do what good drivers do without question ... don't enter a junction without somewhere to go.

I cannot see how that junction has taken so much money .. unless all the drivers in the town are complete planks.

totally different at rush hour  when theres plenty of dicks on the road   i was cut up by a bus and had to stop in the middle of the junction and got snapped 

[Entwood]

I disagree, E. You are at the lights wishing to turn left, as per the Google photo, and one car is ahead of you. There are no vehicles in sight, as far as you can see. The car in front moves off and you follow. As soon as you get round the corner, the car in front stops due to congestion and you are forced to stop in the box, like a patsy...just waiting for the £120 fine. 

Entering a box junction you should NOT just "follow" .. you ONLY enter a box junction when the exit is clear ... NOT when you "hope" the exit is clear.

So the car in front moves off, you STOP at the edge of the box until there is a space for you on the far side THEN you cross the box .. not rocket science .. !!!

Not only exactly how I was taught to drive .. but how the highway code tells you ... section 174 ..   http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.

My highlight ...

[Nickbat]

I disagree, E. You are at the lights wishing to turn left, as per the Google photo, and one car is ahead of you. There are no vehicles in sight, as far as you can see. The car in front moves off and you follow. As soon as you get round the corner, the car in front stops due to congestion and you are forced to stop in the box, like a patsy...just waiting for the £120 fine. 

Entering a box junction you should NOT just "follow" .. you ONLY enter a box junction when the exit is clear ... NOT when you "hope" the exit is clear.

So the car in front moves off, you STOP at the edge of the box until there is a space for you on the far side THEN you cross the box .. not rocket science .. !!!

Not only exactly how I was taught to drive .. but how the highway code tells you ... section 174 ..   http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.

My highlight ...

E, if you stop at the edge of the box, you are obstructing a  pedestrian crossing. You are beyond the lights in no-man's-land!   

[Entwood]

I disagree, E. You are at the lights wishing to turn left, as per the Google photo, and one car is ahead of you. There are no vehicles in sight, as far as you can see. The car in front moves off and you follow. As soon as you get round the corner, the car in front stops due to congestion and you are forced to stop in the box, like a patsy...just waiting for the £120 fine. 

Entering a box junction you should NOT just "follow" .. you ONLY enter a box junction when the exit is clear ... NOT when you "hope" the exit is clear.

So the car in front moves off, you STOP at the edge of the box until there is a space for you on the far side THEN you cross the box .. not rocket science .. !!!

Not only exactly how I was taught to drive .. but how the highway code tells you ... section 174 ..   http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear.

My highlight ...

E, if you stop at the edge of the box, you are obstructing a  pedestrian crossing. You are beyond the lights in no-man's-land!   

If the lights are green for you, you are allowed to cross the pedestrian crossing, you then stop at the edge of the box. If the lights then change they are BEHIND you. Then when the exit from the box is clear, you move on, giving way to traffic from the right if required, ensuring that traffic has cleared the box before proceding.

I agree it is bad design to put a cycle stop, a pedestrian crossing and a box junction is such close proximity, but that does not make it "impossible" to drive it legally .. it just requires care, attention and concentration... none of which are obtainable whilst texting, phoning or eating.

[Lazydocker]

I know the junction in question and it is easy to get caught out... But as E says, if you follow the Highway Code you can stay clear of the box

Trouble is, it's easy to get carried away with the green light and just go for it

[albitz]

Everything Nige says makes perfect sense to me, but - driving through London in the middle of rush hour, easy to make a mistake.

[Banjax]

Entwoods right - you can clearly see 10 feet past the edge of the box from any combination of entrance/exit....

although to be fair at rush hour i'm guessing if you waited for your exit to be clear you'd be stuck for a few hours 


the weirdest thing tho is there are people actually eating in Nandos 

[tunnie]

You just need to plan ahead and not just be in zombie mode and follow everything in front without thinking, the yellow lines of the keep clear box are simple, don't stop inside them. The red Merc in the photo should stop around 2 feet back from where he is, if he clearly could see stationary traffic on his left turn.

9,000 drivers 'caught out' in a year, errr yeah and? How many drivers pass through that every week? 150,000? Who knows!

One thing is for sure, once fined, do you not think they might be a bit more active when it comes to future situations with keep clear box?

Like your rant on the BBC's use of 6 classes on staffs new commute for Manchester, I get the impression you take one small part of a story that you don't like from that utter toilet paper shyte paper Daily Mail then go into rant mode.

[Nickbat]

You just need to plan ahead and not just be in zombie mode and follow everything in front without thinking, the yellow lines of the keep clear box are simple, don't stop inside them. The red Merc in the photo should stop around 2 feet back from where he is, if he clearly could see stationary traffic on his left turn.

9,000 drivers 'caught out' in a year, errr yeah and? How many drivers pass through that every week? 150,000? Who knows!

One thing is for sure, once fined, do you not think they might be a bit more active when it comes to future situations with keep clear box?

Like your rant on the BBC's use of 6 classes on staffs new commute for Manchester, I get the impression you take one small part of a story that you don't like from that utter toilet paper shyte paper Daily Mail then go into rant mode.

Sorry, Tunnie, but even TfL admitted that drivers could be "left in a somewhat awkward situation" when they signed off the design.

With regard to your second point, this is not "some small part of a story", it did not come from the Daily Mail, and I was not having a rant. Why couldn't you just repond with civility instead of having a poke at me and the subjects about which I choose to post? Really a bit unpleasant, Tunnie.

[tunnie]

You just need to plan ahead and not just be in zombie mode and follow everything in front without thinking, the yellow lines of the keep clear box are simple, don't stop inside them. The red Merc in the photo should stop around 2 feet back from where he is, if he clearly could see stationary traffic on his left turn.

9,000 drivers 'caught out' in a year, errr yeah and? How many drivers pass through that every week? 150,000? Who knows!

One thing is for sure, once fined, do you not think they might be a bit more active when it comes to future situations with keep clear box?

Like your rant on the BBC's use of 6 classes on staffs new commute for Manchester, I get the impression you take one small part of a story that you don't like from that utter toilet paper shyte paper Daily Mail then go into rant mode.

Sorry, Tunnie, but even TfL admitted that drivers could be "left in a somewhat awkward situation" when they signed off the design.

With regard to your second point, this is not "some small part of a story", it did not come from the Daily Mail, and I was not having a rant. Why couldn't you just repond with civility instead of having a poke at me and the subjects about which I choose to post? Really a bit unpleasant, Tunnie.

Errr whats to 'design'? Its a cross roads with keep clear box?  :-/  :-/