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[Jimbob]

[split] [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1258052938/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]


New FAQ, on the difference cleaners and good petrol make...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1258052938/0#0

[Jimbob]

Can anyone supply an alternative view / photos on a car run somewhat differently?

[Mr Skrunts]

Roughly 3 times a year, a fuel cleaner, normally Forte Advanced Formula Gas Treatment (before I found that, it was STP or Redex Injector cleaner)

Heads off due to Head Gasket failure....

Am I reading this incorrectly.

I know you just had some head work done by MDTM, also know you have 2 cars so not sure which car these pics relate and the comment mentioned above.

You make the comment sound as if what you found was the cause of your head problem, so now not sure if this product is good or bad bad on the other thread that has been started plus the comments that MDTM made (positive comment)

Maybe it's me mis reading, appologies if it is as I am seriously tired.

[dbug]

Roughly 3 times a year, a fuel cleaner, normally Forte Advanced Formula Gas Treatment (before I found that, it was STP or Redex Injector cleaner)

Heads off due to Head Gasket failure....

Am I reading this incorrectly.

I know you just had some head work done by MDTM, also know you have 2 cars so not sure which car these pics relate and the comment mentioned above.

You make the comment sound as if what you found was the cause of your head problem, so now not sure if this product is good or bad bad on the other thread that has been started plus the comments that MDTM made (positive comment)

Maybe it's me mis reading, appologies if it is as I am seriously tired.

Think Jimbob's trying to show how clean the heads are after 130K miles using an injector cleaner regularly 

[Jimbob]

top marks to dbug...

thread not finished, hence the clarity issue.
I want dirty head pics as a comparrison.

[Mr Skrunts]

top marks to dbug...

thread not finished, hence the clarity issue.
I want dirty head pics as a comparrison.

I thought that may be the case.

Roughly 3 times a year, a fuel cleaner, normally Forte Advanced Formula Gas Treatment (before I found that, it was STP or Redex Injector cleaner) was also used.

I was reading too much into the highlighted statement, as that you had found out that what you were buying, wasnt what you thought you were actually buyin, and as a result caused the damage. (As you have just had the heads done)

As mentioned I am extremely tired at the moment.  (My appologies for getting it wrong (Again )) 

[Martin_1962]

The 2.6 head is completely unrepresentative of fuel usage, it is in that state due to leaking valve stem seals.

I have a couple of heads I used for the rehead and they were not too bad - no idea of fuel used though.

[Gaffers]

I want dirty head pics ......

There are websites for that

[markfree]

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove here.

By my reckoning you have spent an extra £78/year in getting nice shiny heads and valves.

Here's my costs breakdown :-

   average mileage/year = 10,000
   my average mpg = 25
   annual gallons = 400 (10,000/25)
   conservative extra cost per gallon of shell petrol = 13.6p
   annual extra cost of shell petrol against supermarket = £54 (400 x 13.6p)
   ebay cost of forte gas = £8 x 3 doses/year =£24

Total Annuall cost = £78

So you are forking out an extra £78 for nice shiny heads and valves - is it worth it :-/

[Jimbob]

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to prove here.

By my reckoning you have spent an extra £78/year in getting nice shiny heads and valves.

Here's my costs breakdown :-

   average mileage/year = 10,000
   my average mpg = 25
   annual gallons = 400 (10,000/25)
   conservative extra cost per gallon of shell petrol = 13.6p
   annual extra cost of shell petrol against supermarket = £54 (400 x 13.6p)
   ebay cost of forte gas = £8 x 3 doses/year =£24

Total Annuall cost = £78

So you are forking out an extra £78 for nice shiny heads and valves - is it worth it :-/

Well, here there is very little price difference, and I pay under a fiver for the forte.

None of my actions (apart from the forte) are for cleaning, I really find the car runs rough and down on power on ordinary tesco's petrol, the 99 octane feels about the same as normal shell.

The fact it is clean only came apparent when the heads came off.

The purpose of the pics is purely to show there is a difference.

So, I may have spent £20 more than I needed too, but when you feel the difference, its worth it in my book.

I also change the oil every 3000 or so miles, the book says it should be 10000 miles, but you can feel how much better it runs on clean, good oil. at £12 for an oil and filter change, feels worth it to me.

I look after my cars, and like them to run well.

not trying to preach to anyone, not trying to convert anyone.

I was surprised to see the difference myself, It was commented when the head came off how clean it was....with my prior knowledge I wouldnt know a clean one from a dirty one.

[markfree]

Just playing devil's advocate here (or putting an alternative view).
I've trawled the web for opinions on petrol treatment products and the general opinion is that they are not worth it - the best thing you can do is to change your fuel filter every year.
As for using shell petrol as opposed to supermarket - I've found there's not a jot of difference (I drive conservatively anyway) so I always use cheaper supermarket petrol.
You pay's your money and takes your choice

[feeutfo]

first impression was those heads have been cleaned. They "look" like more usual sooty deposits have been removed.
 However, i totally realise that yourself and Mark would not post to the effect you have to prove anything other than a genuine point, just in case that needs clarifying. Just my first impression. So what cleaned them....

A few q's ....
If injector cleaner is for injectors situated the other side of the valves how does it clean the combustion chamber. I realise it will be in the fuel flow obviously, but how does the same product clean injectors "and" heads. Its not claimed to clean the latter afaik going by it name? I also know nothing about the product itself, maybe it does claim to clean the combustion chamber, dont know.

That black film in the plenum.  Any reason why that oil vapour from the breathers wouldn't burn in the combustion chamber to a degree specific to that individual engine?

Also is it possible to compare two heads from differant engines without knowing that that the stem seals are fine. Not likely all 6 would give the same sooty level in all combustion chambers but....

And i suppose to be thorough....
I am presuming sooty deposits are mainly due to oil in combustion chamber to various degrees...? At work, got distracted, lost train of thought. Dam!

 Reguardless of cost for a minute. If injector cleaner works as suspected in this case, why pay for better fuel, or the other way, if fuel cleans why pay for injector cleaner? Suspect proving one or the other will take more time than we have here.

I am personally always suspicious of seat of the pants experiences relating to such small performance margins. Having lpg on my car, i  quite often play guess the fuel. The switch is directly behind the stearing wheel on the right so its easy to align it so you cant see it. Then press the button a few times in Random order so as to loose track if lpg gs on or not. At low revs only,( due to a small hic up on gas at high revs), i have not been able to call it predictably, given i have a 50/50 choice. In short, put super in, ah yeah, must be better.....or is it just me.

Thats enough for now, posting before i get fuddled
again.

Edit.
Brackets added to last paragraph to make clearer.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Lol, the only reason why I chose those pics is because they are typical of what you see on a removed head (and yes Martin, there is oil in there also from the stem seals but....LOOK AT THE VALVES).

An injector cleaner will give the heads a clean during the compression stroke 

The un-answered question is, was the good state due to the cleaner or the fuel.....was the cleaner cleaning the heads or is the fuel burning cleaner.

And no, those heads were straight off the car and had not been off before.

[Kevin Wood]

Those heads are impressively clean.

The other thing that occurs to me (and I'm throwing it into the discussion without being able to prove it one way or the other) is to question how much of that is due to fuel, additives and long term care, and how much is due to the last (say) hour of engine running before it was torn down.

Strip an engine immediately after a good motorway workout and I'd postulate that it's been running hot and lean enough to burn most of the carbon off whereas the majority of engines that do get stripped have been, by definition, running poorly and been nursed home.

I certainly notice my car is smoother after a couple of hundred hard motorway miles, and the plugs are cleaner than when it's been pottering about. Perhaps that's all it needs?

Kevin

[feeutfo]

I certainly notice my car is smoother after a couple of hundred hard motorway miles, and the plugs are cleaner than when it's been pottering about. Perhaps that's all it needs?

Kevin

Hmmm, maybe got too much lard on my arse. Although i only ever do empty motorway miles as a rule. Only time i've noticed a differance in running is on the bike thinking about it, long ride out on a warm day, feels  smoother on the way home when the air is a good 10 to 15 degrees cooler. More air molecules and all that. It all comes together, the bike sings and smooths out, makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck when riding. Your sat right on top of the motor on a bike, its a bit more removed in the car with rubber engines mounts etc.

Have you played "guess the fuel" in yours? Have to turn the radio up so you cant hear the tank click over. The hic up is a give away it high revs obviously. :-)