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[mowerman]

all we are doing is linning the pockets of the oil companies and bosses so the can have their aircraft and posh houses

[Del Boy]

Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.

VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?

Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?

I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.

They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!

But TAX does Del, and I'm afraid we all have to pay it to keep the country running   Tax on fuel, your car parts, the bottle of drink you buy, and large flat-screen TV all have the same in common; running the country. To repeat,  No TAX Income = No UK services!  It is not "nonsense" that the tax on all things, including petrol, pays for our services!


As for Bread Del, there is no tax on it or any other pure food product. These are NOT luxury items so attract no VAT, but a Mars Bar, tub of ice cream, or bottle of beer is considered quite properly a luxury item.  Children's clothes, newspapers, magazines and books are also zero VAT rated, as they are also considered a necessity, not a luxury.  So you see Del the difference between necessity or luxury product is fully taken into account!

I am afraid you are one of many who wish everything to be virtually free and blame the resident government for all things bad, but as I stated in my other post nothing is free, no more than your professional rate  

No VAT isn't on bread, but it hasn't stopped anyone whacking 10 pence on the price of bread, which ever way you look at it, it's on everything! Now I don't expect anything for free, what I do expect though is I pay my tax and national insurance, now if I wanted it for free, surely I wouldn't bother would I? What about the road tax then? Is there an argument for that? Another thing I'd like to show people some accounts on the amount of tax I pay and then we'll see if we think I want everything for free. I for one stand up and have no problem paying tax for services such as the NHS, Police, fire and whatever else. Lizzie there still has been no not even a slight justification of why there is an 81 pence tax on the fuel after the garage has taken it's profit out. Why is that? Because there isn't one.

Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate  :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?

[Del Boy]

all we are doing is linning the pockets of the oil companies and bosses so the can have their aircraft and posh houses

This is what I'm saying though fuel would be 47p after the garage has taken out it's own profit, 81p sits in the Governments pockets.

[mowerman]

the poll has a lot of interest  will tell you the result in 5 days

[aaronjb]

Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate  :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?

Great, can you tell me what it is spent on, then - a link to an external source, with a breakdown of income & expenditure of fuel duty?

I genuinely don't know and would like to.

[Del Boy]

Fuel tax is general revenue for the government, it's not used for the NHS or police or fire, they'd like you to think it was, and Lizzie seems and a few others do, seem to think I'm talking utter bullshit, but it's not, they spend it on what they like. There is VAT on the fuel and then there is VAT on the fuel duty at 20%.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.

VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?

Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?

I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.

They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!

But TAX does Del, and I'm afraid we all have to pay it to keep the country running   Tax on fuel, your car parts, the bottle of drink you buy, and large flat-screen TV all have the same in common; running the country. To repeat,  No TAX Income = No UK services!  It is not "nonsense" that the tax on all things, including petrol, pays for our services!


As for Bread Del, there is no tax on it or any other pure food product. These are NOT luxury items so attract no VAT, but a Mars Bar, tub of ice cream, or bottle of beer is considered quite properly a luxury item.  Children's clothes, newspapers, magazines and books are also zero VAT rated, as they are also considered a necessity, not a luxury.  So you see Del the difference between necessity or luxury product is fully taken into account!

I am afraid you are one of many who wish everything to be virtually free and blame the resident government for all things bad, but as I stated in my other post nothing is free, no more than your professional rate  

No VAT isn't on bread, but it hasn't stopped anyone whacking 10 pence on the price of bread, which ever way you look at it, it's on everything! Now I don't expect anything for free, what I do expect though is I pay my tax and national insurance, now if I wanted it for free, surely I wouldn't bother would I? What about the road tax then? Is there an argument for that? Another thing I'd like to show people some accounts on the amount of tax I pay and then we'll see if we think I want everything for free. I for one stand up and have no problem paying tax for services such as the NHS, Police, fire and whatever else. Lizzie there still has been no not even a slight justification of why there is an 81 pence tax on the fuel after the garage has taken it's profit out. Why is that? Because there isn't one.

Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate  :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?

First about the bread price, and "whacking 10 pence" on it; well that is down to a WORLD shortage of cereal, due to natural disasters, bad harvests, and Russia (a major producer) banning wheat, barley and rye exports.  As these ingredients feature in many of our food products and yes, that 10p will be going on everything   The Governments fault?  Well, no!  It is due to a  WORLD event, and from what I see around us it can only get worse!

As for the justification and my explanation as to why there should be an 81p fuel tax, well I think I have repeatedly explained enough that the total income goes with the rest of the taxes to pay for the running of our country.  Taxes have done that for centuries, but way back in history believe me when I say it was once far worse for the peasants in terms of low wages, high cereal prices, and robbing Lords, Ladies, church leaders and of course, Monarchs taking more than their 'fair' share leaving the peasants in poverty that we cannot imagine today!

Be grateful you live in the 21st century with all its flaws! 8-) 8-) 8-)

[mowerman]

high fuel prices = high prices in the shops = more unsold items wasted food etc

[Lizzie_Zoom]

high fuel prices = high prices in the shops = more unsold items wasted food etc

But the reality is that throughout my life I have seen inflation and fuel prices push up the costs, so that a bag of crisps that used to cost 3d, now is about 40p, and a loaf of bread go from approximately 1/- to £1.20.  Has that meant a drop in consumption over those years?  From the lean, fit and car, fridge, tv, washing machine, central heating and fitted carpet free days of the mid-1950s, we have arrived at owning everything mentioned, and more, plus eating like we have never eat before!

Drop in consumption due to rising prices? I will believe it when I see it, although I do believe world consuption of many items will drop due to many reasons, not least a failure to produce enough food.

[Del Boy]

20p on the price of loo roll then, why? So there is an 81p tax on a litre of fuel so the country keeps running? Ok then debate over, but it still doesn't answer my question  :-/ :-/ Because the country has been in worse states than it is now and we haven't needed an 81 pence tax on fuel. They look at what is used the most then they put the price up. Diesel for example used to be much cheaper than petrol, now they see more people buying diesel, the price goes up. LPG used to be about 40p a litre which is around what petrol should be, but for the taxes but anyway, now LPG is at near on 80p a litre at some places, again why? Because they see more people using it and the price goes up. It's got nothing to do with the fact that the country will stop running of they don't clearly overcharge for fuel.

[wingman]

Lizzie is of course quite right - No Tax = No Income.
So lets tax all the higher earners who currently do not pay their share at a fair rate and prevent the use of tax avoidance schemes and then VAT would not need to be so high, petrol fuel duty could be lower etc. It is a disgrace that the rich in this country (along with the bankers!!)do not pay their fair share now or in the past. The top rate of tax for those earning over 150k should be raised to at least 60p or higher, bank profits and bonuses should be squeezed until the pips squeak along with the threat of nationalisation without compensation if they do not comply fully and start lending to businesses again. This along with a severe crackdown on non dom tax status and avoidance would allow the rate of VAT to stay at 17.5%. And Lizzie lets not hear the old Thatcherite argument that this would stifle business entrepreneurs. It is the capitalist system that has got us into this mess with a global bank crisis so it is now time to replace it with a more socialist approach to benefit all in society, not just the better off as this bunch of hypocritical tory morons and their accolytes want.

[aaronjb]

20p on the price of loo roll then, why?

I don't know what loo rolls you're buying, but I paid £4.49 in November for 9 rolls of Andrex, and now? It's £4.49.

[Del Boy]

Of course I do understand that we need to pay tax, yes that is fair, but then I could go into people who come over here and sit on benefits, but I won't. Lizzie is right no tax no income, exactly correct, but the tax doesn't need to be so high for the everyday person.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Of course I do understand that we need to pay tax, yes that is fair, but then I could go into people who come over here and sit on benefits, but I won't. Lizzie is right no tax no income, exactly correct, but the tax doesn't need to be so high for the everyday person.

Yes, I would love that too Del

The trouble is the percentage of the "very rich" is a tiny percentage of us all as a nation.  Where do you draw a line on who is "rich"?  Do you say anyone earning more than £60,000 PA, £100K PA, £150K PA, or £1 million per year?

For us general poorer folk to pay less tax, we need the minority of "rich" people to virtually surrender all their income to the state; say 95p in the £1.  Then what happens?  Who of the "rich" will want to contribute to this country's economy, lead its commercial sector, or even live here?!  We have seen that situation before, in the 1970s if I remember correctly, and the UK lost out.  The ones with the ability must have a reasonable incentive to work damned hard.

Once more the Government has no money of its own, no very large pot of gold, just our taxes to pay for all.  Where it comes from is ALWAYS the big question, and always will be!!

[chalcroft]

Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.