Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Del Boy]

Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.

Couldn't have worded it better myself, nicely put 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.

I can agree with that

However, whenever the government of any colour try to raise taxes on other things they get lambasted!  To raise enough to cover the significant loss of fuel tax the government would have to tax a major product / service or 'something' else big time!

Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries! 

 Now do you think that would get me elected?  Nope, didn't think so!!

[aaronjb]

Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.

According to the Health Protection Agency [1], 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.

That's 26000000000 litres.

According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2]. That works out to £15327000000.

That's over £15billion.

So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?

[aaronjb]

Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries! 

Well, I'd vote for you All sound ideas, IMHO, but all would be enormously unpopular with various demographics.. heck, drinkers would be outraged, smokers would be up in arms, the anti-drugs brigade would go into melt-down, etc etc. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries! 

Well, I'd vote for you All sound ideas, IMHO, but all would be enormously unpopular with various demographics.. heck, drinkers would be outraged, smokers would be up in arms, the anti-drugs brigade would go into melt-down, etc etc. 

Yep Aaron, that is what I thought!

PS I am impressed with your maths at this time on a Sunday afternoon!

[mowerman]

the problem is this govement is doing to much to fast
also the could cut costs by just having one income tax instead of 2 we have now with N/I it all goes into the same pot

any way back to the topic the last blockade braught prices down.
The worst effected are the lorry drivers without them this country will come to a standstill

[miggy]

No point, nothing will change

[Del Boy]

That's an excellent point, if fuel keeps going up, lorry drivers will be stuffed, that will bring the country to a standstill. I think a £1 per litre cap should be put on fuel, the government are then still getting a healthy cut (still I think it'll be too much) but then I don't think anyone would have a problem. I mean fuel is due to rise again soon.

[wingman]

Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.

According to the Health Protection Agency [1], 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.

That's 26000000000 litres.

According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2]. That works out to £15327000000.

That's over £15billion.

So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?

Yep - Tax the bankers and the rich, raise National Insurance for both employers and employees, cut overseas aid, scrap child benefit for those earning over 50k, have stringent anti tax dodging legislation, increase corporation tax.

[miggy]

Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.

According to the Health Protection Agency [1], 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.

That's 26000000000 litres.

According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2]. That works out to £15327000000.

That's over £15billion.

So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?

Yep - Tax the bankers and the rich, raise National Insurance for both employers and employees, cut overseas aid, scrap child benefit for those earning over 50k, have stringent anti tax dodging legislation, increase corporation tax.

Ban the bomb, stop pay rises, bring back hanging, 

[Del Boy]

How much extra money would this country have if we didn't keep throwing money at other countries?

[miggy]

How much extra money would this country have if we didn't keep throwing money at other countries?

None, its all gone, its right what they say (Whoever they are, never found that one out) charity begins at home.

[mowerman]

we give all that moniey to the EU in return they give us sill rules Tacko rules eg

[Psychoca]

Ultimately the concept of a fuel blockade would only cause disruption.  The actual loss of profits would be minor as the panic buy before any protest happens and the replenishment afterwards would level most of the losses...

I do feel that there is far too much revenue on fuel costs, but, I also feel that there is too much profit made by the oil companies.  Current oil prices are 2/3 of the level they were previously when the fuel prices are at the current level and the increased duty on these wouldn't account for the additional costs to bring it to this level...

[TheBoy]

Its a simple fact, the government needs just shy of another £3k tax from everyone in the UK just to plug the deficit (not the debt - thats far higher).

Remember, some of these will be children, so cannot pay anything, some are pensioners, so limited scope there, and a significant proportion are the lame and the lazy who will never pay anything, you're probably looking at Mr Average having to pay around £5-6k more tax every year.

That is the mess that the failed New Labour project left us all with  . Do I think the coalition are doing enough? No. But they are not the worse case scenario, that would have been another term of New Labour.  Remember New Labour's manifesto was to cut the deficit by £15bn in 4yrs (so only annually spending by around £160bn within 4yrs). Tory/Libdems is better - get the annual deficit down to £135bn a year in 5yrs. Even this is nowhere near enough. We simply cannot just keep borrowing and borrowing.


So, even before we demand a reduction in fuel duty, we have to pay more tax first. Its sad. Its frustrating. Its painful. Its unfair. But its the punishment we have to have for the catostrophic waste of money spent by the previous government.


Some parties, Labour and the (old school) Libdems in particular, say just tax the rich.  Whilst thats a fantastic soundbite, at a practical level it falls over, as we simply don't have enough rich people!


So while I don't like it, I understand the need for it.

Something else I won't like, but think we desperately need is Greek style measures - higher taxes, and cut all but essential services. It we don't stop the deficit promptly, and then start paying off the national debt, then all our taxes will cover no more than servicing the debt.