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[TheBoy]

And I fully expect that we will be very used to paying £1.50 per litre by the summer.

[Auto Addict]

Its a simple fact, the government needs just shy of another £3k tax from everyone in the UK just to plug the deficit (not the debt - thats far higher).

Remember, some of these will be children, so cannot pay anything, some are pensioners, so limited scope there, and a significant proportion are the lame and the lazy who will never pay anything, you're probably looking at Mr Average having to pay around £5-6k more tax every year.

That is the mess that the failed New Labour project left us all with  . Do I think the coalition are doing enough? No. But they are not the worse case scenario, that would have been another term of New Labour.  Remember New Labour's manifesto was to cut the deficit by £15bn in 4yrs (so only annually spending by around £160bn within 4yrs). Tory/Libdems is better - get the annual deficit down to £135bn a year in 5yrs. Even this is nowhere near enough. We simply cannot just keep borrowing and borrowing.


So, even before we demand a reduction in fuel duty, we have to pay more tax first. Its sad. Its frustrating. Its painful. Its unfair. But its the punishment we have to have for the catostrophic waste of money spent by the previous government.


Some parties, Labour and the (old school) Libdems in particular, say just tax the rich.  Whilst thats a fantastic soundbite, at a practical level it falls over, as we simply don't have enough rich people!


So while I don't like it, I understand the need for it.

Something else I won't like, but think we desperately need is Greek style measures - higher taxes, and cut all but essential services. It we don't stop the deficit promptly, and then start paying off the national debt, then all our taxes will cover no more than servicing the debt.

The Boy for World Dictator

[Omegatoy]

got the dreaded white page here so dont know if this will
get through to the forum,

my thoughts on this ?

lets put it in terms most of us can understand the tax on fuel is over twice the wholesale price which is plainly ridiculous!!
thats like saying yes mate £100 pounds to put a windscreen in your car, here is the bill for £300
when you have paid it we will fit it,

What??

sorry mate we have to pay overheads you see if you can find it cheaper elsewhere please go there,

now we have no choice but to pay for fuel but its the life blood of the country the whole economy was built around use of the motor vehicle, thats why we have large shopping malls out of town so people could o there instead
of the local high street, thats why commuting came into its own because people could drive 30 or 40 miles to work in a different area where thier skills were needed,
thats why tesco and the others have so many shops all over the place because the vehicles could deliver there at reasonable cost and they could price thier goods cheaper than the high street, its why we can have service engineers travelling all over the country because they have use of a vehicle, in short nothing can be done without fuel, if the price keeps going up then all this will come crashing down, when it does whats the government going to do then? if people cant get to work then they dont get tax,and go on the dole, if people can get to work with cheaper fuel then they can do overtime etc and still commute ,ergo more productivity more tax,
put simply the only way to show the government they have it wrong would be for all car drivers to not buy fuel for a period of around 10days, the drop in tax and the lack of cashflow,owing to the high price would soon bring a tax reduction, the tankers at sea would have nowere to unload because the onshore tanks would be full, the stations would be sat there paying wages and electricity on empty forecourts, thier tanker delivery fleets would be sat idle, thier cash flow would be interupted, dont let anyone tell you the oil comapnys have no pull with the government they certainly do,

A blockade wouldnt work because the police would simply escort the tankers to get through to delivery points, and less than 1 percent of people would actually get up and show thier support for it however if no one bought fuel
for the siad ten days watch what would happen!!
jm2pw

[hoofing it]

No. This country and its industries are in enough trouble as it is, and the last thing they need is a fuel bockade that will cost multi millions in lost trade!
The Government are trying to sort out the mess made by Labour, and harsh measures must be taken to start to reverse the damage done.  Blockades will only aggravate the situation, and may well cause greater financial hardship for many individuals.

The Australians are right about the English; we are a load of moaning poms!   

Maybe the threat of a national strike along with a blockade for a day would wake up the robbing gitsCameron and his eegits.Petrol and diesel should be capped at £1.00 a litre

[Proz]

Yes .... time to show we have had enough .... 

[Grumpy]

The UK, the European Union and the US want a good dose of inflation
to reduce the value of their debts. With inflation, the arithmetic value
placed on the debt remains the same but the actual value of the
debt reduces as the buying power and thus the value of the
underlying Fiat paper currency reduces.

This is why King,Trichet and Bernanke, at the behest of their
political masters, are desperately trying to keep interest
rates low for as long as possible. They've even changed
how they calculate inflation so that they can report it
below the actual rate of inflation. 
This way they can kickstart some inflation off.

Can you remember when you bought your house in the
early '70's for circa £3000? Seemed a lot then, didn't it?
Fast forward to the '80's and it didn't seem so much
when you were buying at circa £50,000 and on to
the '00's when you're paying circa £165,000.

Everyone is still affording a percentage of their income,
but wages and prices have gone up so that it seems
roughly the same. That's the power of inflation for you.

The treasury is being quite astute here with the Fuel Duty
and VAT increases. The higher fuel prices will be passed on
by the hauliers and then by the shops to the consumers.
The price of goods go up and the treasury gets another
bonus as their VAT take goes up on the higher prices
of the goods.

Eventually, lagging behind, wages go up which cements
the inflation into the economy and thus reduces the value
of the national debt.

Meanwhile the value of your savings, in the Fiat paper
currency, have eroded away.

So will a fuel protest work?
Not on your nelly! There's too much to lose in the grand
scheme of things.

Have a nice day. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

got the dreaded white page here so dont know if this will
get through to the forum,

my thoughts on this ?

lets put it in terms most of us can understand the tax on fuel is over twice the wholesale price which is plainly ridiculous!!
thats like saying yes mate £100 pounds to put a windscreen in your car, here is the bill for £300
when you have paid it we will fit it,

What??

sorry mate we have to pay overheads you see if you can find it cheaper elsewhere please go there,

now we have no choice but to pay for fuel but its the life blood of the country the whole economy was built around use of the motor vehicle, thats why we have large shopping malls out of town so people could o there instead
of the local high street, thats why commuting came into its own because people could drive 30 or 40 miles to work in a different area where thier skills were needed,
thats why tesco and the others have so many shops all over the place because the vehicles could deliver there at reasonable cost and they could price thier goods cheaper than the high street, its why we can have service engineers travelling all over the country because they have use of a vehicle, in short nothing can be done without fuel, if the price keeps going up then all this will come crashing down, when it does whats the government going to do then? if people cant get to work then they dont get tax,and go on the dole, if people can get to work with cheaper fuel then they can do overtime etc and still commute ,ergo more productivity more tax,
put simply the only way to show the government they have it wrong would be for all car drivers to not buy fuel for a period of around 10days, the drop in tax and the lack of cashflow,owing to the high price would soon bring a tax reduction, the tankers at sea would have nowere to unload because the onshore tanks would be full, the stations would be sat there paying wages and electricity on empty forecourts, thier tanker delivery fleets would be sat idle, thier cash flow would be interupted, dont let anyone tell you the oil comapnys have no pull with the government they certainly do,

A blockade wouldnt work because the police would simply escort the tankers to get through to delivery points, and less than 1 percent of people would actually get up and show thier support for it however if no one bought fuel
for the siad ten days watch what would happen!!
jm2pw

I understand what you are saying O, but to start with it was the railways that made commuting popular/necessary, so workers of all skills could travel to where they where required.  The railways still carryout this function, especially in the crowded south and south-east parts of the country, but now spreading out much further from London and the Home Counties.  What we should hope for is more workers travel by train, and therefore we need to greatly expand the network.  This will cost a huge amount of money to get it right, and the passengers, plus frieght traffic will have to help pay for it, along with the private companies. 

Allowing so many 'out of town' shopping centres was, frankly, a  mistake, and has just ruined many a town and city centre, with encouragement and necessity given to the use of the car.  These centres, now built, should be properly linked by railways, or tram ways, to further reduce the need for car travel.  Far more frieght being moved by the railways should also be an aim to remove thousands of lorries from our roads, leaving just local delivery trucks running out from central rail linked warehouses (like it used to be, but for 'loose' frieght.

I know what I am saying will not be popular on here, but how long do you think we can keep clogging our roads and using vastly reduced oil stocks?

The fact is 'O', as I have repeatedly stated in this thread, is that the government has to raise taxes from a whole variety of sources, including on fuel, to pay for our requirements, plus hopefully helping to develop the railway / public transport schemes I suggest.  The percentage of tax on fuel may seem unfair, but what tax is considered "fair"?  This country must pay its way!

Finally repeating what I have also said before in this thread, I have seen prices / inflation have its effect from the 1950s, with the cost of petrol always a discussion point along with dire warnings of our economy collapsing!  It never has, and we all grow to accept the extra costs as we do an increase in wages, apart from the periods when they have been 'frozen'!  More and more people will keep on buying and using motor vehicles until the cows come home, or oil runs out, with a greatly improved transport system providing alternatives.  In  50 years time the motor cars with internal combustion engines we know today will be gone.  That will be considered progress by then, and people will wonder why we in 2011 acted like dinosaurs and could not accept the inevitable changes?

Oh, almost forgot!!   Watch out for OPEC and all oil producing countries wanted to charge a lot more for their dwindling super resource!!

 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

The UK, the European Union and the US want a good dose of inflation
to reduce the value of their debts. With inflation, the arithmetic value
placed on the debt remains the same but the actual value of the
debt reduces as the buying power and thus the value of the
underlying Fiat paper currency reduces.

This is why King,Trichet and Bernanke, at the behest of their
political masters, are desperately trying to keep interest
rates low for as long as possible. They've even changed
how they calculate inflation so that they can report it
below the actual rate of inflation. 
This way they can kickstart some inflation off.

Can you remember when you bought your house in the
early '70's for circa £3000? Seemed a lot then, didn't it?
Fast forward to the '80's and it didn't seem so much
when you were buying at circa £50,000 and on to
the '00's when you're paying circa £165,000.

Everyone is still affording a percentage of their income,
but wages and prices have gone up so that it seems
roughly the same. That's the power of inflation for you.

The treasury is being quite astute here with the Fuel Duty
and VAT increases. The higher fuel prices will be passed on
by the hauliers and then by the shops to the consumers.
The price of goods go up and the treasury gets another
bonus as their VAT take goes up on the higher prices
of the goods.

Eventually, lagging behind, wages go up which cements
the inflation into the economy and thus reduces the value
of the national debt.

Meanwhile the value of your savings, in the Fiat paper
currency, have eroded away.

So will a fuel protest work?
Not on your nelly! There's too much to lose in the grand
scheme of things.

Have a nice day. 

Yep, sums it all up nicely in another way G!  Very astute observation!

[Varche]

I couldn't vote as there wasn't an option for "pay more for fuel". In any case it would be a bit unethical for me to vote for even more pain for the Uk.

Why should it go up more? Simply to be able to pay for more weapons (Trident replacement £25B to £100B) more conflicts (forthcoming invasion of Iran etc £50B) and to keep the drones in their place working just about as hard as they can bear in order that the rich get richer. Oh and to avoid proper accountability of where our (sic) money actually is spent

Sorry but without tax rises there will be some unhappy folk at the Ministry. Roll on the £2 litre!

PS Unleaded is 1.27 euro here in Spain. In real terms (lower wages, 20% unemployment etc) that is more than it is in the UK. 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I couldn't vote as there wasn't an option for "pay more for fuel". In any case it would be a bit unethical for me to vote for even more pain for the Uk.

Why should it go up more? Simply to be able to pay for more weapons (Trident replacement £25B to £100B) more conflicts (forthcoming invasion of Iran etc £50B) and to keep the drones in their place working just about as hard as they can bear in order that the rich get richer. Oh and to avoid proper accountability of where our (sic) money actually is spent

Sorry but without tax rises there will be some unhappy folk at the Ministry. Roll on the £2 litre!

PS Unleaded is 1.27 euro here in Spain. In real terms (lower wages, 20% unemployment etc) that is more than it is in the UK. 

That's right Varche,  the whole world is having to bear increased fuel prices due to the economic situation.  France is also on a par with the UK on unleaded fuel prices in line with their cost of living and earnings,  Admittedly though their diesel is about 20% lower in price

[Omegatoy]

Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!

[millwall]

Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.

well said del

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!

That means over 100 now O!

[Omegatoy]

Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!

That means over 100 now O!

lol yep but if they have to work longer they will need to use thier car longer, which they wont be able to afford to do !!!

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!

That means over 100 now O!

lol yep but if they have to work longer they will need to use thier car longer, which they wont be able to afford to do !!!

The answer?  Motorised Zimmer frames!