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[Shimmy]

Yup, very good race once it got underway again.  Great drive from Button and from Schumacher it has to be said.

Whilst I'd agree DRS should removed (unfair advantage) and that I'd like to see closer racing, wheel to wheel racing you see in the lower formulae isn't what Formula 1 is about.  I'd much rather see clever ballsy overtakes in F1 rather than the argy bargy in touring cars.

F1 made a good improvement towards that this year by banning double diffusers which has allowed cars to follow by 0.5 sec behind rather than 1.0sec+.  This should be improved next year too as the EBD (exhaust blown diffuers) will be banned as the exhausts will exit 330mm behind the diffuser, we'll also get to see the exhaust flames on over run now. 

I agree there should be less aerodynamic emphasis and more mechanical developments, which understandably is harder to govern.  Should bring back ground effect as this basically negates 'dirty air' and allows cars to follow each other very closely.

Whilst I can understand people's frustrations with rain affected races and standing water, there's not a whole lot the cars can do to solve the problem.  The tyres can clear enough water and grip, but the cars are often running so close to the ground they basically aquaplane/surf on standing water.  Also there is the considerable problem of visibility which is always going to be a big problem, drivers often say they listen for other cars in these conditions as they can't see them.  Can't really raise the ride height and make them 4x4's either.  The only solution I can put forward is to introduce much better drainage around racing circuits so that the water can be cleared away quickly.  Seemed to work very well in cricket, don't see why they can't do the same for F1.

As you can see I could probably talk all day about F1. 

[VR4Dave]

Excellent race, I fell asleep but woke up just in time to see vettel drop one! Thanks to iplayer I got to see it.

[VR4Dave]

Also, agree that button is a bit of a poof and it's only because hamilton has such a desire to win that he gets himself into a bit of trouble.
Imagine if all of them raced like he does, they wouldn't need to try and make it more exciting!

[feeutfo]

So you want cars that 'work' in the rain, and some argy-bargy..

Basically, then, fit the F1 cars with an enclosed cockpit, windscreen wipers and fit a full road car bodyshell so cars don't get thrown off the track when you have wheel to wheel contact.

Oh, look, Touring Cars. Try watching that instead of F1, TB

Opps, sorry, I missed this post, my bad.

I love BTCC . That definately has a place in this world.

Single seater doesn't need to go that far, but some kind of compromise in the middle. Certainly a car that can run in wet conditions, as the current situation is a bit of a laughing stock.

If the goal is the fastest possible cars, then don't limit engines/aero/tyres.  If you want anything that resembles a race, some fundamental changes need to be made

I was pondering all this today, ESP since the death defying crashes at le'man.

Let's be honest for a minute, touring cars is no match for f1 on performance grounds, and I must admit on previous discussions I had over looked the prototypes in the endurance series. Add in the porsches and Ferraris of the lower classes in endurance, which would piss all over touring cars in every respect you start to see the proof of that. The prototypes absolutely destroy them in every area and have the enclosed cockpit and chassis you mention. So let's say prototypes are a better idea for f1 for a minute.

Now take the Allan Mcnish crash at Le'man. The Ferrari (touring car lets say)involved in that incident iirc stopped just short of the barrier. Where as the Audi (f1 car for comparison)was still travelling at high enough speed and hight to have almost cleared the barrier and continue on the same distance again had there not been a concrete wall 15 feet high behind the tyre wall that only just cought the car and saved several people from certain death.

Now during the f1 commentary at the Gilles Vileneurve circuit Brundle stated this is an old style F1 track with Walls and  ,yes admittedly  catch fencing. There is cock all run off there when you put F1 cars on the circuit.

 Now do we really think that Charlie Whiting was over cautious? Do we really think start under safety car was too safe? Do we really blame them for not releasing the race proper until the track was practically dry?

Because having seen the crash at Le'man it tell you what. I don't!

And I'll tell you something else. The race should never ever have been run there at all. And looking at the way they handled the race so cautiously THEY DAMN WELL KNEW IT TOO!

So. Where back to the same sort of conclusion we always seem to come to on these discussions. F1 has outgrown itself! The cars and development have moved on. And damn right too. Thing is the circuits have not. We can't have flat out racing in the wet as we all want to see in Canada! No way! Whiting deserves a medal IMO. Because you can bet Eclstone will be badgering him to get things under way somehow. Bernie needs to stop decorating his house in Gold and build some suitable tracks! THEN let them rip.

Rant over 

[aaronjb]

I agree with almost all of that - though I would hate to see them lose all of the 'old' tracks and have nothing but antiseptic 'modern' tracks in countries like Bahrain.. partly because the design of the new tracks has been a bit hit-n-miss; some of them give excellent racing and some of them are like watching paint dry  :-/

[Kevin Wood]

I reckon the LMP would have stopped quicker if it was in contact with the ground. Yes, they are faster than a GT car but also a lot lighter. Overall energy at impact is probably not much different, IMHO.

But, agreed. Driver safety seems to have been cracked these days. Time to consider other aspects of how to allow the cars to be raced to their full potential reasonably safely.

It has to be said, since the LMPs were downgraded in power they seem more unsettled. In both cases, a relatively light touch caused the car to just take off.  :-/

[aaronjb]

It has to be said, since the LMPs were downgraded in power they seem more unsettled. In both cases, a relatively light touch caused the car to just take off.  :-/

The commentators (repeatedly, they had 24hrs to fill, after all ) talked about the fact that they are now running as little downforce as possible to counteract the decrease in power, so I imagine that has quite a bit to do with it..

[feeutfo]

I reckon the LMP would have stopped quicker if it was in contact with the ground. Yes, they are faster than a GT car but also a lot lighter. Overall energy at impact is probably not much different, IMHO.

But, agreed. Driver safety seems to have been cracked these days. Time to consider other aspects of how to allow the cars to be raced to their full potential reasonably safely.

It has to be said, since the LMPs were downgraded in power they seem more unsettled. In both cases, a relatively light touch caused the car to just take off.  :-/

Obviously we're never going get a direct comparison unless we have....  A direct comparison. :-/ And if the Audi had been going slower it would not have left the ground. They clearly need to level that gravel trap. I mean how often do we sit and watch a race, an incident occurs and only then do we see the level of energy being released by a tumbling car or cart wheeling bike...ooh that's nasty...ooh that's really shifting... Ooh Blimey it's not slowing down... CHRIST ALMIGHTY IT'S nearly in the crowd/vaulting the fence etc.
 Indy cars is an ideal example, they only look dramatically quick when smearing bits of Carbon fibre down the retaining wall after a minor whoopsy leading broken limbs in a bath Tub skidding up the track with no resemblance to a car.

But yes, proves the point surely? Although I do wonder what on earth Mcnish was doing... :-? There was a suggestion he didn't know the Ferrari was there.... 

Take the TT or the nurenburg ring. Fantastic ribbons of Tarmac. So much so they are considered almost hallowed ground. Pilgrimages.... visitors from the world over...  People return year on year... Why? And here my argument falls down a little, danger, for the most part, but also because the track meets the need, the challenge, the drug that's involved with that danger. It's worth the risk.

Name me a short circuit that meets that same level? Silverstone does, according to drivers and riders alike, although I don't think crowd are as keen. Saxon ring maybe in some sections. Lagunas cork screw section, the rest of that circuit us just a means to go back up to the cork screw for another go... Er, and now I'm struggling.

They need to build something worthy of the call. We need it desperately....   IMO.

[Hannah Judes Dad]

Cadwell Park - The Mountain ?  ask Leon Camier what happens. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9DhGIuLIQo

[albitz]

Build cars which suit the circuits - all this progress and development 'dangle berries' is overrated. Then get the British GP back to a proper circuit - Brands Hatch.First lap, paddock hill bend, that would sort the men from the boys.

[feeutfo]

Build cars which suit the circuits - all this progress and development 'dangle berries' is overrated. Then get the British GP back to a proper circuit - Brands Hatch.First lap, paddock hill bend, that would sort the men from the boys.

Ah yeah, backward development. You have the answer there Albs. 

So we have the mountain at Cadwell leading up to the corkscrew, leading down into the infield at Saxon ring up and over the hill to the drop off right hander at the back of the circuit, leading to the back straight at Silverstone going directly into the fast left at Abbey(old circuit now banned) into Bridge, do the complex, main straight turn 1 then maggots, beckets, chapel.....  Then what?

[TheBoy]

Trouble with making circuits safer, by having massive run off areas, is it makes it worse for spectators.  TV is less affected, as you can use large lenses, but people who pay £150+ for a ticket will get more and more alienated.

Alienate the fans, the sport dies.

[albitz]

Build cars which suit the circuits - all this progress and development 'dangle berries' is overrated. Then get the British GP back to a proper circuit - Brands Hatch.First lap, paddock hill bend, that would sort the men from the boys.

Ah yeah, backward development. You have the answer there Albs. 

So we have the mountain at Cadwell leading up to the corkscrew, leading down into the infield at Saxon ring up and over the hill to the drop off right hander at the back of the circuit, leading to the back straight at Silverstone going directly into the fast left at Abbey(old circuit now banned) into Bridge, do the complex, main straight turn 1 then maggots, beckets, chapel.....  Then what?

If I wanted to see development I would take a tour of a laboratory. I want to see close exciting racing on circuits which arent sterile and devoid of character - so yeah, turn the clock back. Why not ?
Anyone I know (or know of) with a decades long interest in  motorsport (and F1 in particular) are unanimous - it was a hell of a lot better 20 to 30 years ago.

[feeutfo]

Build cars which suit the circuits - all this progress and development 'dangle berries' is overrated. Then get the British GP back to a proper circuit - Brands Hatch.First lap, paddock hill bend, that would sort the men from the boys.

Ah yeah, backward development. You have the answer there Albs. 

So we have the mountain at Cadwell leading up to the corkscrew, leading down into the infield at Saxon ring up and over the hill to the drop off right hander at the back of the circuit, leading to the back straight at Silverstone going directly into the fast left at Abbey(old circuit now banned) into Bridge, do the complex, main straight turn 1 then maggots, beckets, chapel.....  Then what?

If I wanted to see development I would take a tour of a laboratory. I want to see close exciting racing on circuits which arent sterile and devoid of character - so yeah, turn the clock back. Why not ?
Anyone I know (or know of) with a decades long interest in  motorsport (and F1 in particular) are unanimous - it was a hell of a lot better 20 to 30 years ago.

Then go watch classic racing, if you want touring cars watch them, and if we don't like F1 then don t watch it at all! But we do, avidly, Because it's F1 and not any other class.

[albitz]

I dont watch F1 avidly anymore. I can remember many years ago walking out of a wedding reception (and leaving the wife there) because the highlights from the U.S were being shown.
I now watch it if I happen to be at home,and its on, and I have nothing better to do. Or Im at work, where I certainly wont have anything better to do.
The point is, it is without doubt a shadow of what it used to be.
There has been incredible progress, but most of it in the wrong direction and for the wrong reasons. It has gone up a blind alley in many respects and needs to reverse out of it.
The excitement in this seasons racing is due to the rear wing opening thing for the most part. And thats artificial and mickey mouse. Its papering over the cracks of the bigger problems.