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[TheBoy]

I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.

It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW...  ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)

[Paul M]

I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.

It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW...  ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)

Not in mine. Admittedly it's still a handful to drive, with 315 BHP through the rear wheels which are wearing 265/40 summer tyres, but big RWD cars with summer tyres are never a great idea in the snow unless you actually want to go sideways (who me? ). When I still had the Audi I'd always choose that when it's snowing and I wanted to get from A to B with minimum sideways action, lighter car with skinnier 195/60 tyres and the weight over the driven wheels (it was FWD) meant it was far easier to get around. Added to the fact if I did hit a kerb or something I'd much rather be doing it in that car!

The secret with BMW's DSC system is to put it into a little documented mode where it will only apply braking to individual wheels in an attempt to keep the car straight and apply power most effectively. Using this mode, the DSC will never cut power so you can feed it in as gently or as heavily as you like. To activate it, press the DSC button as normal (the light comes on the dash) but instead of releasing it keep holding. After 15 seconds the light on the dash goes back off, and it's in the "braking only" mode so you can use full power no matter how the car slides. Works quite well in snow, obviously if you want to make any progress using high gears to move off and gentle on the gas is loads more effective than launching it in 1st  8-)

[TheBoy]

I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.

It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW...  ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)

Not in mine. Admittedly it's still a handful to drive, with 315 BHP through the rear wheels which are wearing 265/40 summer tyres, but big RWD cars with summer tyres are never a great idea in the snow unless you actually want to go sideways (who me? ). When I still had the Audi I'd always choose that when it's snowing and I wanted to get from A to B with minimum sideways action, lighter car with skinnier 195/60 tyres and the weight over the driven wheels (it was FWD) meant it was far easier to get around. Added to the fact if I did hit a kerb or something I'd much rather be doing it in that car!

The secret with BMW's DSC system is to put it into a little documented mode where it will only apply braking to individual wheels in an attempt to keep the car straight and apply power most effectively. Using this mode, the DSC will never cut power so you can feed it in as gently or as heavily as you like. To activate it, press the DSC button as normal (the light comes on the dash) but instead of releasing it keep holding. After 15 seconds the light on the dash goes back off, and it's in the "braking only" mode so you can use full power no matter how the car slides. Works quite well in snow, obviously if you want to make any progress using high gears to move off and gentle on the gas is loads more effective than launching it in 1st  8-)

I was referring to BMW's TC, not their ESP, which I haven't used yet. BMW's TC implementation is so poor, that the slightest bit of snow, you have to disable it.

[Paul M]

There are various versions, I guess earlier ones may have been pretty crap but I've never tried a car with it fitted. I had an E34 (circa 1995) 540i 6-speed manual a while back, and that had ASC+T which is basically a fancy name for traction control (the ASC bit meaning it cuts engine power when a driven wheel slips, the +T bit means it brakes the slipping wheel in an attempt to allow the wheel with more traction to get more power). You could do a similar thing using the 15 second trick with that, where it would only use pure traction control with no power reduction, giving the effect similar to a limited slip diff. Not as good as a real LSD, but a damn sight better than an open diff and brilliant for drifting or doing donuts in snow  

Even with it on full normal mode it was fine, bogged down a little at first but I've yet to drive a car with a TCS system that doesn't. I guess having a big torquey engine helps as it can still pull even with the power being cut. I remember my dad had a Mondeo company car years ago with a 2.0 engine and TCS. If you spun the wheels sometimes the TCS would cut power but once the wheels stopped spinning the engine was so gutless and bogged down I often found myself dipping the clutch to get the revs back up so the damn thing could move! Not the best idea, but it was a company car so it's destined for a hard life lol.

[TheBoy]

Neither my brothers 3 series Alpina or his 540 would go anywhere in the snow. In the end he gave up, and bought an X5 instead (likes out in country, so needs something with some element of traction). Alas, he will only consider BMW, hence the X5 (which his dealer put through the carwash with sunroof open at its first service! - £65k of car through a carwash is bad enough, but to leave s/r open is inexcusable).

Strangely, he will only consider Sony for home entertainment...

He thinks this stuff is as good as it was late eighties/early nineties, and fails to realise that even cheapo companies have caught up, in many cases overtaken...

[TheBoy]

Neither my brothers 3 series Alpina or his 540 would go anywhere in the snow.

Used to piss him off that his £50k cars would get stuck, and my £3k Vauxhall would have no problems...  

[Paul M]

His chelsea tractor probably won't be much better, and it makes you look like a right prat when it does get stuck. Come to think of it you look like a right prat in one of those regardless, so maybe getting stuck isn't much more of an embarrassment after all.

X5s are a dog dropping a great big turd on the BMW badge. Admittedly most of their newer cars aren't up to the standards of the older stuff (the quality and engineering of the 840Ci is generally excellent, even moreso the 850CSi the engine of which was developed into that which powered the McLaren F1), but it really makes me cringe when I see an X5 and I have to come to terms with wearing the same badge as such junk.

Porsche have suffered a similar fate with the absolute abomination that is the cayenne. I used to see them as quite a coveted marque, and even fancied an early 996 911 C2, but the brand has taken a severe dent in my view making it much less desirable to me. That combined with rear main seal issues on the boxer engines (excluding 911 Turbo and GT3) has more or less put me off the idea of a Porsche.

Oh and my 840 does just fine in the snow, it's the tyres that let it down. I haven't driven the Omega in snow yet but I'm pretty sure it would be woeful on the current tyres considering how bad it is in the rain!

[TheBoy]

His chelsea tractor probably won't be much better, and it makes you look like a right prat when it does get stuck. Come to think of it you look like a right prat in one of those regardless, so maybe getting stuck isn't much more of an embarrassment after all.

Agreed.

I think BMW cars have really gone downhill since early nineties.

As for the McLaren F1 GT engine being a development of the 850 engine, thats a bit of a stretch...

[TheBoy]

Porsche have suffered a similar fate with the absolute abomination that is the cayenne. I used to see them as quite a coveted marque, and even fancied an early 996 911 C2, but the brand has taken a severe dent in my view making it much less desirable to me. That combined with rear main seal issues on the boxer engines (excluding 911 Turbo and GT3) has more or less put me off the idea of a Porsche.

Porsche were always a 'poor mans sports car' (proper sports car) when I was a lad....

[TheBoy]

McLaren F1

Mention of that brings back memories - I've been lucky enough to sit in the drivers seat of that beast...

[Markjay]

McLaren F1

Mention of that brings back memories - I've been lucky enough to sit in the drivers seat of that beast...

I used to see it on display in the window while walking down Park Lane, but this was as close as I ever got to one...  

[Martin_1962]

McClaren F1 is tow M3 engines in priciple

Carlton had ACT - Advanced Chassis Technology - ie a well designed chassis the Omega is similar in design.

[TheBoy]

McClaren F1 is tow M3 engines in priciple

Carlton had ACT - Advanced Chassis Technology - ie a well designed chassis the Omega is similar in design.

Nothing like M3 motors...

Hope Omega is a hell of an improvement on Carlton, chassis design has come a long way in last 20 years....

[Chopsdad]

Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet?

Whimp!

Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...

Thats me safe then  

Don't bet on it - I had a 2.5 diesel transit do a 360 on me down a country lane a few winters back. 3 tunnies out of control is not recommended...

 

[Andy B]

.......
Hope Omega is a hell of an improvement on Carlton, chassis design has come a long way in last 20 years....

It's pity the Omega's front wish-bone bushes didn't keep up then.