Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheBoy]

The saga continues....

As well as all sorts of stuff going through it, I put some Forte coolant cleaner through.  Hasn't made a jot of difference, but boy that is good stuff - it has lifted out all the limescale and grime in the coolant bottle, so must have done a good cleaning job inside the engine.  Still overheating though. Need to get to shops for some fernox next I think.

Omegatoy has looked at it from a different angle, and has come up with a possible theory - I'll let him explain.  I'm willing to try most things, as I'm out of ideas now.


Other than that, nothing much happened.

Oh, and I think the gearbox is now knackered  .  Bloody autoboxes on these are a bit like K series HGs - it will happen, you just wait for it to do it.

[Omegatoy]

This might be a long post!!!!
As you know all of us have been thinking about the possible fault with the cooling system and to be honest I think the Boy has covered most areas now, so I went back to basics and pictured the engine as a whole not just he cooling system,
then it struck me, the diesel engine has two cooling systems!!!!
The intenal moving parts are cooled by oil then the oil is cooled ny the oil cooler, now part of that oil cooling system is oil squirters or jets directed at he bottom of the pistons to carry away heat, and on one of his first posts about the tracctor he mentioned that after changing the oil before he had even started the engine the oil in the sump was black!! couple this to no service history and my thinking is that the oil squirter and a lot of the other oil ways are possibly blocked ny gunge!!! now if the oilsquirters are blocked the pistons are going to get blooming hot!! and the only place for the  heat to be expelled is the water cooling system, as you know the pistons are close to the headgasket which means teh cooling system is trying to remove far more heat than it was designed to do, this is causing hot spots and literally boiling the coolant to steam hence the blowing out of the coolant, it also explains why when ticking over for hours it doesent boil and under normal cruise condition it dont chuck water out, but when undr hard boost and the pistons  get to hot the system cannot cope!! but it can cope if he backs off and cruises when it gets to hot!
so your thoughts please guys? am i on the right track or talking 'dangle berries'?
I reckon a very strong oil flush which is only available to the trade would go a long way to helping cure the problem, but it may be that its to far gone to do it that way but its got to help?
Omegatoy

[STMO123]

Thats really interesting. It would be like a vicious circle effect. The oil getting hot and heating up the water heating up the oil etc.....
A good flush with forte engine flush  cant do it any harm TB. Leave it in there a good 40 mins while its ticking over. Should get most of the shite out.

[STMO123]

Heres some

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORTE-ENGINE-FLUSH-TREATMENT_W0QQitemZ130112575480QQihZ003QQcategoryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[TheBoy]

This might be a long post!!!!
As you know all of us have been thinking about the possible fault with the cooling system and to be honest I think the Boy has covered most areas now, so I went back to basics and pictured the engine as a whole not just he cooling system,
then it struck me, the diesel engine has two cooling systems!!!!
The intenal moving parts are cooled by oil then the oil is cooled ny the oil cooler, now part of that oil cooling system is oil squirters or jets directed at he bottom of the pistons to carry away heat, and on one of his first posts about the tracctor he mentioned that after changing the oil before he had even started the engine the oil in the sump was black!! couple this to no service history and my thinking is that the oil squirter and a lot of the other oil ways are possibly blocked ny gunge!!! now if the oilsquirters are blocked the pistons are going to get blooming hot!! and the only place for the  heat to be expelled is the water cooling system, as you know the pistons are close to the headgasket which means teh cooling system is trying to remove far more heat than it was designed to do, this is causing hot spots and literally boiling the coolant to steam hence the blowing out of the coolant, it also explains why when ticking over for hours it doesent boil and under normal cruise condition it dont chuck water out, but when undr hard boost and the pistons  get to hot the system cannot cope!! but it can cope if he backs off and cruises when it gets to hot!
so your thoughts please guys? am i on the right track or talking 'dangle berries'?
I reckon a very strong oil flush which is only available to the trade would go a long way to helping cure the problem, but it may be that its to far gone to do it that way but its got to help?
Omegatoy

I don't know enough about tractors and how they work to comment, but I am certainly willing to give it a try...

[Kevin Wood]

How is the oil normally cooled? Into the water as with the V6 or a separate cooler?

My gut feeling is that the net heat into the water in the first instance will be the same. OK. It will get into the coolant via a different route but I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference. The pistons will be cooled by splash to a certain extent if the jets are blocked.

If the pistons are getting hotter than normal they will primarily lose heat through the rings into the bores so the heat should be spread over a wide area.

If the pistons are seriously overheating it could be that they are beginning to get tight in the bores and that would hugely increase heat output. I would expect it to have shown other symptoms by now though. I'm sure you'd feel it tightening up for one thing.

Piston cooling jets can normally be accessed with removal of the sump so taking them out for a check might not be too bad a job. They also sometimes have a small valve in the base which only allows them to flow over a certain oil pressure, so if the oil pressure is low it would stop them cooling.

Got to be worth giving the oil system a good flush though. Check the pressure relief valve, too, if it's easily accessible.

Kevin

[Martin_1962]

I'm still wondering if the head gasket holes are getting blocked -

[Kevin Wood]

I'm still wondering if the head gasket holes are getting blocked

This is the scenario that I've been suspecting for a while too. Some nasty additive gets put in, the smallest holes in the cooling system are the bores in the HG so a few of these block and you've got an area of stagnant coolant in the head & block. Doesn't cause a problem most of the time but when the engine's putting out maximum heat it boils and pops the cap on the expansion tank, despite the rest of the system not being that hot. It's a long block on these so engines so getting the coolant flow even along the length of it is probably fairly critical.

Problem is, I'd have expected some of TheBoy's relentless flushing to have made a difference by now....  :-/


Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

Might be close to needing a head off exploratory......

[Martin_1962]

Vanes off a previous water pump?

[TheBoy]

Vanes off a previous water pump?

That is a scenario I had thought, but if there are, I cannot dislodge them...

[TheBoy]

Might be close to needing a head off exploratory......

Beyond me I'm afraid.  A v6 I would consider doing (as I have your phone number ), but the diesel, with its chains etc, way beyond me.

[Paul M]

Sorry to hear of your continuing woes with this car, if it were me I'd have given up long ago

I can't really add anything to what's already been said I'm afraid. Going purely on gut feeling I'm more inclined to go with the waterway blockage theory rather than the oil cooling problem. I can't justify that with any real reasoning though.

Interesting observation with the effectiveness of Forte coolant flush, I wonder if using that will reduce the chance of an oil cooler failure on the V6? I'm usually wary of using flushing treatments on higher mileage engines as I've seen stories that dislodging too many deposits can cause leaks due to various gaskets being worn and the deposits acting as a seal. I think that applies more to oil flushes though and I've no idea if there's any merit in it.

Good luck... and hopefully it's not going to require a head removal although that's looking increasingly like the only remaining option .

[Marks DTM Calib]

Might be close to needing a head off exploratory......

Beyond me I'm afraid.  A v6 I would consider doing (as I have your phone number ), but the diesel, with its chains etc, way beyond me.

Actualy, it looks an easier job to do.....

[Admin]

Appearances can be deceptive!...  

Could be a challenge for Mark, once the estate is moved and there is a cover on the driveaway to avoid incurring the wrath of Mrs DTM with oil leaks...  
(Mr McB is still recuperating after being found to have left a leaking car on the drive...  :-/)