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[ziadalmahmoud]

ok now im starting to go nuts..
Car has been having a history of hard starting (over a year) with same symptoms and i dont seem to be able to find the problem.
Car cranks, fires, but doesnt start. When and if it starts (after alot cranking), it starts lumpy at low revs, with black smoke for few seconds, then it goes back to normal.

First time this problem happened, the mechanic said the injectors were bad, so he replaced them with clean ones, problem was resolved for some 5-6 months.

Then it came back again. Paper clipped it and it was flashing 19.
Took it to mechanic, where he changed crank sensor, spark plugs and rechecked the injectors (by taking them out checking them and putting them back in). Car starting came back to normal.

Now after 2 months, problem is appearing again. Paper clipped it, no fault codes. This time i noticed the trend that car starting is usually difficult during noon time where temp here reaches 45 deg C. However when car is cold it starts easier.

now im really starting to get despirate. any advise.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I assume all the servicing is upto date including a recent fuel filter change?

The battery is in good condition?

[ziadalmahmoud]

thanks for the reply.

yeah fuel filter, changed 6 months ago..
battery now a year old.

could it be cam sensor prob? its a 3.0L 2001. however it never stalled while running.

i just dont know where to look.

[TheBoy]

Paperclip it again, see if that 19 has returned...

[ziadalmahmoud]

just paperclipped it, flashing 12 & 31.

upon cranking it, the auto gearbox check came up. im assuming that shouldnt be related to the problem since its the first time to light up.

[Bo Bo]

Ignore 12.

31 points to crankshaft sensor, see here

[TheBoy]

If engine wasn't running, ignore the 12 and 31. If you can get engine running, repeat test.

[TheBoy]

You need a decent code reader to read what the gearbox thinks is wrong...

[cem_devecioglu]

Hi,

checked my documents a bit and find these shortly

necessary checking fuel pressure

check points for fuel related problems
 * fuel pump check valve
 * fuel pump relay
 * fuel pressure regulator

also another strong candidate is cam sensor  


less possible causes (according to notes)

faulty gas cap
slow responding IAC valve

[ziadalmahmoud]

thanks to all for responses.

couldnt get the car checked as its holidays here.
just tried starting it. cranked it, it fired, but didnt start. second crank there was no sound of firing at all. and it seems that battery started to lose all its energy. Paper clip still doesnt indicate any 19 code.
tomorrow morning will try to jump start it. if it didnt then i guess its a tow to the dealer.

[ziadalmahmoud]

Just got the call from the dealer and they say that pump winding resistance is low, fuel injectors are blocked, and one valve is leaky, and the following need to be replaced:

Fuel Pump Assembly                      £302
Fuel Pump Clamp                 £3
Fuel Pump Plug Expansion                £37
Fuel Pump Seal (Not Available)          £23
Valve Cover Gasket                      £55
Valve Cover O Ring                      £3
Fuel Injectors (Not Available)          £631
Labour                                  £192

Total                                   £1247

I doubt all these are causing the hard starting. Can anyone advise.
Is there an alternative to all these expensive prices =/ ??

[Kevin Wood]

Valve cover and gasket are worth doing with original VX parts. The rest you could get much cheaper from a scrap car as they rarely fail. I'd be surprised if all the fuel injectors were blocked, and if the pump's knackered I'm surprised they were able to diagnose a problem with the injectors.

My first action would be to change the valve cover gaskets and clear the breathers, then check for any oil contamination on the HT leads, and check the coil pack, as that's the normal failure scenario.

If that doesn't bear fruit take a look at the fuel system. Check the fuel pressure, change the fuel filter, and if that doesn't solve it look at the fuel pressure regulator and the fuel pump. Once you've got correct fuel pressure and a decent spark, then it's time to question the fuel injectors.


Kevin

[ziadalmahmoud]

Thanks for the response Kevin.

yeah i would be surprised if injectors were blocked at all. If any was blocked it would probably give bad driveability all the time not just during starting and the 15 seconds after that. maybe its worth mentioning that everytime the local mechanic removed the injectors and put them back in, the problem would be resolved temporarily and the car would start and run perfectly.

Dealer was saying that usually pump winding resistance is low when cold, but when it start heating up the winding resistance would start building up. They say that might explain the hard start.

As for the lumpy 15 seconds after that, they say it might be due to Valve O-Rings and Gasket failure (there seems to be a wet like area on the top diver side of the engine). But wouldnt that cause the engine to be lumpy all the time rather than the first 15 seconds?