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[Pete Elite]

this just gets better, explain how a fixed belt tentioner thats has been tentioned corectly can adjust the vave timing, dont forget the new belts has the timming marks on it, the tentioner just becomes a belt guide once its set ? but please tell this muppet more

  Not all belts are supplied with markings unfortunately .

  

[rad cap]

SORRY I SHOULD SAY ADJUST RIGHT IDELER ANTICLOCK WISE THEN LEFT ANTICLOCK ,THEN TENTIONER ANTICLOCK WISE,TURN ENGINE 2 TIME THEN REPEAT ADJUSTING EVERTHING CLOCK WISE,   ANY WAY, I DO THAT DONT WANT A KIT I HAD NO PROBLEMS,  BUT IF YOU HAVE A SUPER ALL SINGING DANCING TOOL KIT THAT YOU WONT NEED FOR 4 YEARS AGAIN USE IT

[Andy B]

SORRY I SHOULD SAY ADJUST RIGHT IDELER ANTICLOCK WISE THEN LEFT ANTICLOCK ,THEN TENTIONER ANTICLOCK WISE,TURN ENGINE 2 TIME THEN REPEAT ADJUSTING EVERTHING CLOCK WISE,   ANY WAY, I DO THAT DONT WANT A KIT I HAD NO PROBLEMS,  BUT IF YOU HAVE A SUPER ALL SINGING DANCING TOOL KIT THAT YOU WONT NEED FOR 4 YEARS AGAIN USE IT

Whatever!  

[JamesV6CDX]

is this thread some sort of jest?  Oh and sorry to say. . Its bank 3 and 4 that you get right first and then time bank 1 and 2 to it

[shyboy]

Been reading this thread with great interest, as somebody who can't contribute to the theory.
But isn't Rad Cap's point that the whole thing depends on locking the cams and crank into positions from which they cannot move until you want them to. There's no doubt that the kits make this easy and certain and accurate, but I can't see why the same result cannot be obtained with an alternative locking method, which would not damage the sprockets, provided it was foolproof from the movement point of view. Aren't you just saying that the kits are altogether easier and safer, and more certain to be accurate?
Or am I completely bonkers?

[JamesV6CDX]

the two idlers are adjustable and significantly affect valve timing. If you remove an idler which you need to do to change a belt kit then you will not get the correct position when re fitting without the timing kit. Remember its a setting tool not just a locking kit.  

[HerefordElite]

the two idlers are adjustable and significantly affect valve timing. If you remove an idler which you need to do to change a belt kit then you will not get the correct position when re fitting without the timing kit. Remember its a setting tool not just a locking kit.  

but then if you read the haynes manual you can set the idler to 0.5-1mm gap turn engine over twice then set to 2.5mm?? :question

(had to stick my oar back in)
 

[JamesV6CDX]

anyone who trusts haynes is not going near my car

[shyboy]

OK. I still can't quite take that in, but I'll watch it being done at Shifnal and hope that the penny drops then.

[dbug]

SORRY I SHOULD SAY ADJUST RIGHT IDELER ANTICLOCK WISE THEN LEFT ANTICLOCK ,THEN TENTIONER ANTICLOCK WISE,TURN ENGINE 2 TIME THEN REPEAT ADJUSTING EVERTHING CLOCK WISE,   ANY WAY, I DO THAT DONT WANT A KIT I HAD NO PROBLEMS,  BUT IF YOU HAVE A SUPER ALL SINGING DANCING TOOL KIT THAT YOU WONT NEED FOR 4 YEARS AGAIN USE IT

No need to shout chap - we aint deaf!!!!!!!!!

[TheBoy]

you dont need a locking kit, when you have all your timming marks inline clamp the cam shafts together with mole grips, fit you belt anticlock wise a be very carefull, if it helps use a tipex white pen to highlight the timming marks first,

Sorry, it is not possible to correctly time up the GM V6 cambelt without a locking and timing kit.

I would urge anyone NOT to attempt it.

[TheBoy]

correct full points to you, time up the engine,AND LOCK WITH MOLE GRIP , remove old belt etc, fit full new belt kit, tentioners and ideler pulleys, start at crank with belt mark to crank mark ,fit in a anticlock wise direction, twin lines on belt will aligne with cam marks,when its all on ,adjust right tention anticlock wise, making sure nothing moves, then do same to left tentioner anticlockwise, recheck nothings moved, REMOVE THE MOLE GRIPS, turn engine 2 turns, all belt marks will be out of agline now,adjust again in the same order but tention clock wise this time, recheck nothings moved,set final tention 2,3 mm job done , put back  together ,THEN GO TO PUB

To explain a little.

Most engines, you can get away with your method (though on this type of engine, I'd rather spend £4.99 on the correct wedge that damage sintered cam sprockets ).  This type of engine generally has no adjustment - its either right, or a tooth out.  If its right, and you dont make a mess of the tensioner, then job done.


The GM V6 has infinately adjustable timing.  This has advantages (being able to time up perfectly, despite tolerances in manufacture etc) and disadvantages (it needs the proper locking/timing tools!).  Presumable you are changing the entire kit (as its usually the idlers/tensioner that fails), not just the belt, which means you are disturbing the timing.  Seeing as the marks on the cam cover back plate are just rough markings to assist with initial belt install, you have no accurate way of checking - and it will be out, because you have replaced the infinately adjustable idlers.  Even if you were by pure luck bang on with both banks - highly unlikely - you may be off with the crank not being perfectly at TDC (and remember, as its infinately adjustable valve timing, being 'near' like many other engines won't be good enough).

Hope that clarifies things a little.

[Jimbob]

There are what, 10 cambelts being done this weekend?
They will all have their timing checked BEFORE hand
This will likely show most have been fitted by people without the kit before  hand and have been incorrectly done.

From what I gather here, A correctly timed v6 is the exception not the rule!

[HerefordElite]

There are what, 10 cambelts being done this weekend?
They will all have their timing checked BEFORE hand
This will likely show most have been fitted by people without the kit before  hand and have been incorrectly done.

From what I gather here, A correctly timed v6 is the exception not the rule!

Main dealer did my last belt change so like to think it's timed right
But they couldn't even get the plugs out to change them so not overly confident

[jaykay]

In my experience, it pays to use the correct tools for the job in the long run.