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[longdog]

This relates to my earlier posts on March 3rd and 8th on the same problem. Basically  - x reg omega auto estate 2.5 v6 with 70k miles, and developed a bad oil leak. Took to garage. Rocker cover gaskets were obviously leaking so asked for them to be done as a minimum and the breathers, inlet gaskets etc and to have a look for other potential causes. Also had complete new cam belt kit, new water pump and some other bits done. Collected car and drove home (5 miles). Leaking even more than before, but from a different place. Back to garage. Checked rocker cover area – all clean and dry and nothing in the plug wells. Leak seemed to be from somewhere lower down. They reckoned seeping from head gaskets. Had to use car that weekend. Garage said change oil for heavier grade and add can of stop leak to see if any effect (ooh – I can hear you groaning). They did that. No difference – still leaking. After weekend trip, back to garage for “serious discussion”. They agreed to try and pinpoint the leak but still thought it was head gaskets. Couple of days later they tell me they found the headbolts loose and had to tighten them up to correct torque – thought that may solve the problem. First test drive – seemed clean and no leak. Second test drive, leaking again but now from another new location. This time seems to be leaking from back end of engine. They still say head gaskets – I’m not convinced.

Anyone care to suggest options for the cause / source of the leak.

Anyone in the Nottingham area care to take this on and fix it for me – appropriate payment of course – I’m losing faith in this garage.

[ians]

I say they found a stupid mistake that they had made doing the job and covered it up with the 'head bolts being loose' story.
Then they probably over torqued the camcover bolts which are only supposed to be 8Nm - scarcely more than hand tight - and one of the covers has now distorted and is leaking.   (Check the torque if you have a low end wrench)

Just a guess..

garages always diagnose headgasket because
- its a ££ job
- they are likely to find the real problem along the way, or at least fix it without realising it.

[longdog]

They had mentioned the loose headbolt option almost immediately and before they had any chanef to disciver a stupid mistake on their part. Also if it was camcover distortion would the leak not be visible or at least easily diagnosed / found and fixed ?. The leak is now at its third location - apparently at the back of the engine and not readily visible.

[Gaffers]

.....still thought it was head gaskets. Couple of days later they tell me they found the headbolts loose and had to tighten them up to correct torque .....

If it was loose headbolts you would have had bigger problems than leaking oil, to name a few:

burning oil and coolant in cylinders
leaking coolant
Low compression and probably misfires/cross combustion

Even if the bolts were loose a cyl head has to go on completely clean, ie no oil coolant or cr@p inbetween gasket and block/head.  Which means asmentioned they are prob lying.

And I have never, ever heard of head bolts coming loose on their own.....

[Kevin Wood]

There's only one oilway in each head gasket that is under pressure, so I can't see it leaking from different areas.

To check the head bolts they would have had to strip it down fairly well. Cam covers off again, probably cams out to get to all the bolts. Not a 5 minute job, and, as said, there would be more problems than just an oil leak. Oil pressure is perhaps 3 bar, acting over a very small area of the head.

Cylinder pressure is probably several hundred bar under load acting over an area the size of the palm of your hand. Which one is going to break the seal?

Have they checked the oil cooler pipe unions at both ends?

Kevin

[Kevin Wood]

And I have never, ever heard of head bolts coming loose on their own.....

Not a chance of modern stretch bolts loosening. They are more like springs which clamp the head down under serious force. They would need to undo a turn or more to remove the clamping force.

.. and if I did find one loose I'd never just tighten it because the chances are it's deformed permanently.

Kevin

[Albus Dumbledore]

I was thinking the same thing. If head bolt were loose, they would have to discard them, not tighten them.

Everytime the headbolts are loosened (if they were tight before), you have to use new ones, and I think also if the headbolts were tight, and then loose, the headgasket has to be replaced also. A headgasket can't be used twice. (stop me if I'm wrong anyone).

A garage should know this

[Kevin Wood]

stop me if I'm wrong anyone

You're quite right. Garage are desperate for the revenue from a HG change, which is why they're making noises about the head bolts. I'm quite sure the "loose head bolt" is bull.

.. unless they mean the cam cover bolts, which should not be very tight anyway. Hope they haven't "nipped them up".


Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

Might be able to spare you a half hour to take a look.

[Marie]

Might be able to spare you a half hour to take a look.

Take him up on that offer Mark is the best there is.  

[VX1]

Unfortunately mate garages these days rely on computers and don't understand the compexity of the modern car engine of today, they are still using the same method of yester year. All the garage wants is YOUR money, every time you take the car back to them they say something different thus more money to pay them. What you need to do is get the front of the car on ramps and take a crawl underneath (or someone that is willing) and see if you can see where it could be leaking from, thats the best diagnosis you can get.

Paul  

[longdog]

Thanks all - and apologies for absence. Seem to be having issues with my firewall or something. Suddenly took a dislike to various sites / pages and wouldn't allow me to get fully logged in to OOF, so no reply or submit capabilities. Even now it is still downloading "stuff" from OOF.

Still arguing with the garage and haven't even gotten my car back yet. Going to see them this evening with a glint of determination in both eyes and probably will leave credit cards at home.

Mark - thanks for the offer. I'll email you later re your location / suitable time to get to you etc.