Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Welcome to OOF

Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox  (Read 4549 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

subliminal

  • Guest
Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« on: 23 March 2008, 22:50:22 »

Firstly - I’m a bit embarrassed to be writing this after having benefited so much from the information found on this site in the past and never having contributed, but here it goes;

I'm struggling to pinpoint a problem with performance / mpg on my 3.0l MV6 auto. When accelerating normally (e.g. not uphill and not putting my foot down :p) the car seems to accelerate much more slowly than it has done in the past. The rev counter seems to indicate that the engine responds as it always has, but the power eventually put to the road seems lacking.

A bit more detail;

The car only inches forward/backward only ever so slowly when put into D from N. On a slight incline the car will remain stationary until power is applied – on a steeper incline (Sheffield – lots of hills!) the car will tend to roll backwards (annoying!).

The car idles at approx 700 revs and seems to idle fairly smoothly – perhaps ever so slightly lumpy occasionally – according to the good chaps as the (quite respectable/trusted, non-VX) garage this is ‘normal’ (I’m not convinced).

Speeding off at junctions / from standstill is much more ‘civilised’ now – not at all the way I like it for those rush-hour / small gap moments :). Likewise, suddenly accelerating (from any speed) seems to be difficult – the revs are happy jumping approx 400-500 revs or so, but power only follows afterwards in a way that makes it difficult to see off the odd gimp in an escort who is determine to screw you in that soon-to-merge outside lane. Sure I could floor it, but I hate doing that regularly.

When accelerating, the engine speed might jump 500 revs before the actual road speed begins to catch up. In a similar manner, when transitioning from a level piece of road to an incline, the engine speed will tend to stay the same (whilst keeping my foot in the same position :), whilst the road speed might drop 7mph or so.

Changing from 3rd to 4th gear usually happens around 50mph – because I try to drive sensibly (fuel prices and all that!) the revs usually drop down to around 1800 at this point. More recently, however, the revs drop only slightly at this point, perhaps to 2200. Driving on the M180 today, the lockup didn’t seem to want to engage (assuming this gearbox/torque convertor does have a lock-up in gears 3 and 4?) – accelerating (smoothly) from 70 – 80 mph causes the rpm’s to jump up from 2500 to just under 3000 and stay there whilst the road speed catches up slowly.

While keeping a constant speed (or accelerating very slowly) up an incline, the rev counter seems to ‘twiddle’ slightly (as opposed to remaining steady, dropping, or going up). It’s probably only about 10 revs up/down or so and hardly distinguishable, but you spend enough time with a car and you pick up these things :). The engine sound seems to mirror this (bear in mind I’m the only one who can see/hear this – it is VERY slight).

Overall MPG seems to be suffering - especially at lower speeds / accelerating smoothly (and slowly!), I seem to be getting around 10mpg (until 12-20mph -ish?). Motorway mpg seems about 5mpg down on normal at around 28-30 average, instead of 35 average.

Overall the gear changes are as smooth and consistent as I've ever known them (but then, I bought the car with 93k on the clock).

I’ve had the car at a gearbox specialist – and by specialist I mean they are a garage who ONLY deals with gearbox problems. They checked the fluid level/quality, hooked up some sort of diagnostic tool, and took the car out for a drive (well, I was in the passenger seat – the guy pegged it as fast as he could up a street and listened to the gear changes/strange noises). Overall he said it sounded fine – good even, although there was one slow change while he was flooring it. The diagnostic tool revealed no transmission error codes, although it did show a code 31 Engine speed (Present RPM) sensor no signal. I had my regular garage (who does the work I just don’t have time for or REALLY don’t feel like doing :p) swap out the sensor, although looking at the receipt just now it mentions a ‘crank angle sensor’ (which I imagine is the same?). While it has made the engine idle better (still not perfect for my liking) it has done nothing to improve overall performance. (Oh pooh - after further reading I realise its quite typical to show this error if the engine is not running! I do wish the search function would return more than 15 results though :()

Other (potentially relevant) work done recently includes new rocker gaskets (and covers – grr), timing belt, serpentine belt, oil filter/oil, spark plugs, coolant. Bits still outstanding include cleaning the breathers – I doubt the garage gave the lot a clean when they put on the new rocker covers, and an air filter.

I’m not an experienced mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but am comfortable taking apart anything I have the tools for – it was all a lot easier with the car I had before the Omega though :p.

Any help is very much appreciated. I would to find a garage around here that I can give my car to and be assured that I would get it back fixed, but like so many, it seems to have to look further afield to get some real answers from those who are so much more knowledgeable :).
« Last Edit: 23 March 2008, 23:18:45 by subliminal »
Logged

Marks DTM Calib

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Bridgford
  • Posts: 33984
  • Git!
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #1 on: 23 March 2008, 22:53:47 »

Sounds more like engine to me and I would suspect a vac leak somewhere.......
Logged

bigdods

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #2 on: 23 March 2008, 23:41:16 »

I'm all ears on this thread... my 3.0 Elite feels about the same, no real get up and go . I thought it was just me being used to driving faster cars but Im now sure its not as spritely as it could be. Vac leak somewhere , that sounds like a fair amount of pipework to check !

I've never managed to get above 25mpg but then I do drive a mix of A roads and DC's in the rush hour.

Logged

Marks DTM Calib

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Bridgford
  • Posts: 33984
  • Git!
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #3 on: 24 March 2008, 07:52:07 »

As a example, we found a 2.5 auto with a split large breather pipe, it made no difference to idle vaccum (as you would expect) but when repaired increased mpg by 4-5 and restored the power.
Logged

bigdods

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley
  • Posts: 461
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2008, 17:52:26 »

Had a look this morning ,as it was cold it was a quick look ! SO far all I have found was a valve in the air intake pipes that was stuck. It appears to be vacuum driven and is in the alloy piece of the twin intake pipes at the front of the engine (hope this is making sense!). Seems that a coolant pipe had been incorrectly routed and was sat under and slightly in front of this valve preventing it rotating. As soon as I moved the pipe the valve spun around. No idea what this valve is but who knows maybe it will make a difference.

Logged

tmx

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Herefordshire
  • Posts: 2131
    • 3.2 MV6 2002
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #5 on: 24 March 2008, 18:15:35 »

hmm yeh my mv6 manual was suffering from this i found that the air intake hose wasnt attatched to the tb properly so air was leakin in fixed it and now it goes much better especially since i had it chipped
Logged

subliminal

  • Guest
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #6 on: 25 March 2008, 20:54:08 »

Got a bit distracted by a worn tensioner that was very much on its way out - next on the list is the vac check then - bigdods is right - a fair bit of pipework to check!

I really appreciate your pointers chaps - gives me a great starting point!
Logged

subliminal

  • Guest
Update
« Reply #7 on: 14 April 2008, 14:22:09 »

I've been slowly eliminating things, and have even (scarily) paid £40 for Vauxhall to diagnose the problem. They didn't come up with anything, and as far as they are concerned the car is 'running fine for its age', which is such an annoying cop-out answer!

The "interlock / lock-up not engaging on 4th gear" problem seems to be occuring more frequently now, perhaps in 20% of trips I take. I have dropped by the gearbox chaps again, who are suggesting it may well be a sticky valve, and suggest changing the valve body at a cost of £542 - not sure if this is reasonable or not yet.

I am wondering if the interlock / lock-up is not engaging consistently in 3rd gear - if it is, the cumulative effect would certainly explain the increase in overall fuel consumption. It does not explain the VERY VERY slow crawling forward when in drive but not applying any foot-to-accellerator (it used to move a little quickly forward), nor does it explain the ever so slight RPM variation when accelerating going up-hill (e.g. the RPM needle moves up/down +/- 50-100RPM).

I have wondered if it might be the torque convertor - which might explain the overall lack in performance?

Any thoughts are appreciated as always. I'm going to have a look at prices for torque convertors, valves, and valve bodies :) Bit apprehensive of turning my hand at the autobox though :(
Logged

Kevin Wood

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Alton, Hampshire
  • Posts: 36387
    • Jaguar XE 25t, Westfield
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #8 on: 14 April 2008, 14:28:00 »

Whether the auto box locks up in 3rd and 4th will depend on the engine load as seen by the ECU amongst other factors. It will only lockup with relatively light load. If the engine performance is down for some reason the engine load will appear greater to the autobox ECU than the engine's output suggests. Therefore, it's worth eliminating engine problems before worrying about the gearbox.

I'm sure if there was a fault in the gearbox that was preventing lockup engaging, the auto gearbox ECU would have raised a fault.

Kevin


Logged
Tech2 services currently available. See TheBoy's price list: http://theboy.omegaowners.com/

Marie

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Linconshire but works in oxfordshire
  • Posts: 2676
  • i am a hands on person, i like to get stuck in !!!
    • 2ltr LPG Estate
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #9 on: 14 April 2008, 14:45:40 »

torque converter for the omega your lookin around £180 for a recon one.

as for the lack of power:

i would start with the cheep option which is to checkall thevac pipes as the others have allready said its a time consuming job to do but needs doing.

as with the gearbox if the specialist says their is nowt wrong and they have checked it i would go with it. usless............its been flooded with water before (then your in a whole world of hurt. ) the water rots the seals and then the gear box fails. goodthing is... you dont seem to have any of the symptoms  i ocurred.

let us know what happens when you have checked the pipes. :)
Logged
Now has two miggs in our house hold. Both 2.0ltr 16v lpg'd. a MFL and a FL.

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 106852
  • I Like Lockdown
    • Whatever Starts
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #10 on: 14 April 2008, 14:48:44 »

Did those muppets read gearbox as well as engine codes?
Logged
Grumpy old man

subliminal

  • Guest
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #11 on: 14 April 2008, 15:00:48 »

mmm - I've been reading (on and off) about the problems you encountered Marie :s (I hope you're on your way to getting those sorted!)

I will have to check the vac pipes again - I had a quick look over them and couldn't spot anything, but will have another go! I'm not so familiar with the engine yet, so not sure which parts are likely to be the culprit! (Poo! Just remembered I still haven't changed the air filter!)

The gearbox chaps did read gearbox codes as well as engine codes - vauxhall had a look as well, so there are definately no codes stored (which I guess is something to be happy about I guess!)

I do wish diagnosing problems were more black/white :) (or that at least you could drop your car off somewhere if you were out of your depth and know the garage could sort it!)

I really do appreciate your help (I just wish I had a little more to contribute!)
« Last Edit: 14 April 2008, 15:02:02 by subliminal »
Logged

Marie

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Linconshire but works in oxfordshire
  • Posts: 2676
  • i am a hands on person, i like to get stuck in !!!
    • 2ltr LPG Estate
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #12 on: 14 April 2008, 15:07:26 »

i know this might not help you but when my gearbox failed i didnt get any codes. just wouldnt go into reverse.

we striped the old one out to have a look and found one of the gaskets broken down inside the box. :) we wouldnt have known there was a problem if it did go into reverse.

good look.

as an idea if you run your engine and wipe the pipes with soapy water if its lettin by you should be able to see it. dont know how well this would work but its worth a try and your pipes will be clean afterwards.
Logged
Now has two miggs in our house hold. Both 2.0ltr 16v lpg'd. a MFL and a FL.

mkaminski100

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Basingstoke
  • Posts: 595
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #13 on: 14 April 2008, 16:50:29 »

If the autobox doesn’t lock the TC, all you have to do is change a solenoid (small sump), not the whole valve body. You can buy a fully working box for £100.
Although mine is just 2.0, I have the same problem. First it was autobox, but now i think t's cured (sticky 2-3rd gear valve - big thanks to Sassanach).
My MPG is still about 15-16 in town and up to 30 on the run.
I tried almost everything and still same thing. Maybe I need to clean breathers and throttle body once again...
Logged

Marks DTM Calib

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Bridgford
  • Posts: 33984
  • Git!
    • View Profile
Re: Performance and MPG not up to scratch / autobox
« Reply #14 on: 14 April 2008, 17:02:48 »

The first step for this fault should be to do a vaccum test....
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.017 seconds with 18 queries.