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Author Topic: Too strong,a,mix  (Read 1926 times)

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amba

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Too strong,a,mix
« on: 02 August 2008, 10:12:48 »

If the coolant to water mix was above 50% each what would be the effect on temperature,as I am still puzzling with why my temperature is reading 90-92.5 despite replacing the thermostat/both coolant sensors.Just might have more "red stuff" mix than water and curious if problem could really be the mix.
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rickyboy

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #1 on: 02 August 2008, 10:17:05 »

Temp sounds spot on to me?  Don't think the wrong mixture would effect the temperature - the additive is there mainly to stop your water freezing and to stop corrosion of parts.
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amba

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #2 on: 02 August 2008, 10:21:27 »

Thats what I thought but was unsure if coolant tended to make the engine run cooler.
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feeutfo

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #3 on: 02 August 2008, 10:45:50 »

Quote
Thats what I thought but was unsure if coolant tended to make the engine run cooler.

During a bad water leak i was pouring in coolant so fast
I ran out. So had to use tap water. Eventually it was
running with pure water. Not good. But it made fa
differance to the temp. Maybe check your fan fuses
They come in at various speeds but it does not
sound to bad to me? What was it running at before?
I presume something has changed to concern you?
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philhoward

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #4 on: 02 August 2008, 11:00:34 »

Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium.  "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..

Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
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Bandit127

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #5 on: 02 August 2008, 12:30:57 »

Quote
Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium.  "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..

Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
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HolyCount

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #6 on: 02 August 2008, 14:54:45 »

I might be wrong -- but though 90-ish was about right.

Have been recently informed that one fan kicks in around 95 and t'other around 100
« Last Edit: 02 August 2008, 14:57:24 by HolyCount »
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Abiton

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #7 on: 02 August 2008, 15:28:51 »

Quote
Quote
Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium.  "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..

Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.

With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly.  Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html

I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days.  The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.

 ;)
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VXL V6

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #8 on: 02 August 2008, 16:31:05 »

Wouldn't take too much notice of the scale on the dash - scales seem to have changed between early and late dashboards, needle should sit somewhere around the middle in normal circumstances.


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HerefordElite

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #9 on: 02 August 2008, 19:20:10 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium.  "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..

Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.

With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly.  Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html

I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days.  The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.

 ;)
totaly agree :y 100% glycol would be perfect mix as regards feezing and boiling points but it comes down to specific heat capacity i.e. how much heat the medium can carry away where 100% water would be perfect (but your block would rust quickly and there would be reactions between disimilar metals).

so i guess somebody decided a 50/50 mix would be best??? not convinced though so gonna investigate more :D

(opens can of worms and stands back) ;D
 :y
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amba

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #10 on: 02 August 2008, 20:36:44 »

Before I did a coolant change about 3 months(4000 miles) ago my temperature never went above 95..mid point..and reached that fairly quickly after starting car.Since coolant change car has struggled to get above 90 and this was only after a fair time running.Was advised that thermostat could be stuck open so replaced the stat/transfer pipe and to be totally sure did both temperature sensors under tye plenum.Car now seems to get a temperature quicker but does not go beyond 90 even when in stationary traffic like today on M25.Was wondering if I had ended up with too stong a mix now and this was causing temperature to run low.Cannot imagine anything else is playing up as have changed it all(except the gauge)but that must be working as it has registered different temperaure with new and old stat.
Don,t think I have a problem just a question of logic ???
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philhoward

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #11 on: 02 August 2008, 21:40:40 »

So long as it gets to a certain temperature reasonably quickly and stays there, i wouldn't worry.  Mine sits at an indicated 90 all the time, and gets there pretty quickly.  It's abnormal action that should be cause for concern.  

As for relying on the gauge?  I wouldn't trust the gauge figure too much..my old engine showed a constant 95 and got there just as quick.  Only difference is the sensors as i didn't swap them over.
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Bandit127

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #12 on: 02 August 2008, 22:18:19 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium.  "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..

Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.

With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly.  Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html

I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days.  The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.

 ;)
totaly agree :y 100% glycol would be perfect mix as regards feezing and boiling points but it comes down to specific heat capacity i.e. how much heat the medium can carry away where 100% water would be perfect (but your block would rust quickly and there would be reactions between disimilar metals).

so i guess somebody decided a 50/50 mix would be best??? not convinced though so gonna investigate more :D

(opens can of worms and stands back) ;D
 :y

Sorry guys - this is the bit I didn't remember correctly. 100% glycol freezes about -12 deg. Not 6.

Have a look at what happens after 60%.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html
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philhoward

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #13 on: 02 August 2008, 22:34:25 »

Very interesting article, Bandit 127..thats a two-fold reason for not going overboard on antifreeze strengths, then!

I tend to stick to about 1/3rd strength myself - moreso given the cost of the stuff!  Sods law say you disturb the cooling system and a new leak appears...well in my case, anyway!
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Bandit127

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Re: Too strong,a,mix
« Reply #14 on: 02 August 2008, 22:45:23 »

Quote
Very interesting article, Bandit 127..thats a two-fold reason for not going overboard on antifreeze strengths, then!

I tend to stick to about 1/3rd strength myself - moreso given the cost of the stuff!  Sods law say you disturb the cooling system and a new leak appears...well in my case, anyway!

Yes, agree with your earlier comments. The specific heat of 100% ethylene glycol is lower (0.59 at ~25 deg) than water (1.0)

You are right about leaks too. Some years ago we added glycol to an injection moulding tool's cooling system - with some 50 odd connections per tool and we had 6 tools. Yes - it finds leaks....  :( :( :(
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