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[unlucky alf]

hi JUSTME, thanks for the info, ive only fitted one g/box myself but the guy i got it off said that he had changed it but the problem was still there, the guy could have been feeding me a line though as he wasnt convincing, anyhow like ive said ive metered out the wiring & all seems fine, when you say the first plug are you talking about the one nearest the engine or the wing?, did yours come up "auto box check" without even starting the car up?, i will check all 3 of those plugs tomorrow even though ive looked at them already just in case ive missed something, if it works then great itll be a relief but failing that i will be still waiting for the ECU, its not that i disbelieve TB or anyone else for that matter but it only takes one spike back into the ECU to knock out an MPC so thats why i cant take it as gospel, but be sure of one thing when its sorted EVERYBODY will know

[unlucky alf]

tried what you said JUSTME but still no good, worth a go though as stranger things have happened, i`ll try anything even down to wearing my other halfs lucky knickers! [again ]

[justme]

hi JUSTME, thanks for the info, ive only fitted one g/box myself but the guy i got it off said that he had changed it but the problem was still there, the guy could have been feeding me a line though as he wasnt convincing, anyhow like ive said ive metered out the wiring & all seems fine, when you say the first plug are you talking about the one nearest the engine or the wing?, did yours come up "auto box check" without even starting the car up?, i will check all 3 of those plugs tomorrow even though ive looked at them already just in case ive missed something, if it works then great itll be a relief but failing that i will be still waiting for the ECU, its not that i disbelieve TB or anyone else for that matter but it only takes one spike back into the ECU to knock out an MPC so thats why i cant take it as gospel, but be sure of one thing when its sorted EVERYBODY will know

Sorry to hear that, yes I had autobox up as soon as you switched on ignition, had a slight problem earlier in the day, box sounded being awfull as soon as you moved. Thought nothing of it at the time, went to use it in the evening and it showed up, also flashed up when driving.
as said drove home in 2nd. Having looked at the book of lies and even checked this site, decided to start from these connections it was the first one I looked at, the smallest plug by the battery. switched the ignition on and it was gone, tested it and ok except for a slight adjustment to the accelerator cable, although today got a feeling that 3rd & 4th not quite right, but only when temp is at 90dg or above. it only ever goes to approx 92, 93ish. To date I have not even checked  the ecu or anything else. So it will be a quick check of some sensors.
Again as TB said if you are able to use the box manually, your not going to find much there.
when you say you have checked out your wiring and sensors, back to the gearbox ecu, what voltages are you checking them against, because I have not found any quoted voltages as yet. Still looking, so all I would be able to check at present would be continuity, unless of course youre taking the switched 15v. need to know what should be coming from the sensors to the ecu, and then to the box to be certain.

At present I cant see it being a major, it runs to good for that in auto or manual change, so it's going to be the simple things first and a process of elimination. So if you have the voltages would not mind a copy, if you dont I certainly would not even think of changing the ecu.

Should I find anything else that may be of use to you I will let you know.        

[unlucky alf]

hi there JUSTME, ive only done a continuity test myself as like you say there doesnt seem to be any sheets on voltages, the thing is with mine is that it drives EXACTLY the same wether the ECU is plugged in or on the coffee table indoors!, the only difference is the warning message goes [but then it would wouldnt it!], all lights by g/selector lighting up properly, ive checked for voltages on the solenoid plug [4 pin] on the box & getting sod all on any of them, so working on the theory that the ECU supplies these voltages its got to be the next target unless they are getting lost en route, but the continuity test showed o,k [not the ideal test as a damaged wire could cause resistance], so rather than strip the loom down ive opted for the ECU, the one answer i could do with is that the blue plug has a row of pins that are common to each other on testing but its anyones guess if this is the norm, i think ive upset MARK somehow as i thought he`d have some input but never mind we`ll get there eventually

[justme]

hi there JUSTME, ive only done a continuity test myself as like you say there doesnt seem to be any sheets on voltages, the thing is with mine is that it drives EXACTLY the same wether the ECU is plugged in or on the coffee table indoors!, the only difference is the warning message goes [but then it would wouldnt it!], all lights by g/selector lighting up properly, ive checked for voltages on the solenoid plug [4 pin] on the box & getting sod all on any of them, so working on the theory that the ECU supplies these voltages its got to be the next target unless they are getting lost en route, but the continuity test showed o,k [not the ideal test as a damaged wire could cause resistance], so rather than strip the loom down ive opted for the ECU, the one answer i could do with is that the blue plug has a row of pins that are common to each other on testing but its anyones guess if this is the norm, i think ive upset MARK somehow as i thought he`d have some input but never mind we`ll get there eventually

This is the 4th attempt to write the following since 2pm this afternoon, kept on getting crashes. After the sites I have visited today. Someone managed to land me with a Trojan. Had to scan the whole computer found 11 of the buggers. So here goes again.

Hi Tim,

        have not found anything on voltages, or ecu codes, except you can read them with an ODBII tester, but again unless you know what the codes refer to it would be a waste of time.

So you do not get a reading on the solonoid plug!!!! so that's good then unless of coure you where driving it at the time.

Right lets try and clear up a few mysteries.


The chances of 2 boxes having the same problem is rather remote, but not impossible, that applies to the ecu as well. Your ecu is telling you nothing more than it is unhappy with something, one of it's sensor readings. It does not tell you about anything mechanical or indeed the oil levell.

The common factor in all this is the engine and sensors. Which will throw up far more problems than any you will get from your box or as TB says the ecu.

You are using the box manually I believe, does not matter either way,
the indicator lights you say are all ok. There is nothing wrong with your box or ecu.

Dont get confused this is not a manual where you are just sliding gears in and out of gear.

The auto is nothing more than an hydraulic unit controlled by electronics.

Now your solenoids do nothing more than slid up and down, depending on the voltage supplied to them via the ecu. In sliding up and down they change the direction of flow and hence the gears.

Your torque converter drives the oil pump in the box hence the pressure. The solonoids divert said pressure which changes the gears.
depending on where the gear selector is. in addition there are brake bands which are also controlled in much the same way. one does not work without the other.

So unless the engine is running there is no oil pressure, you have no gears. So can you see that you cannot have a reading on the solenoids unless the engine is running and a gear selected.

Again this is how in general terms your box works. You are using it there cannot be anything wrong with it or your ecu.  

You mentioned that when you cleaned the gear selector switch on the side of the box, it was full of oil ?. There is in fact an oil seal on this shaft, so it must be leaking, therefore letting air into the chamber which is known to cause problems.?

You have a speed sensor on the back of the box/proshaft which could cause problems.?

Your ecu checks the temp on not only the oil but also the cats ?  

Have you cleaned your ICV ?

Have you checked your vac tubes.?

Do you have a leak on your intake manifold ?

Your reversing lights ?

Accelerator position sensor ?

Check anything that could be of interest to the autobox ecu.

Regarding Mark I am sure that if you put a message up for him he will reply. dont rely on him picking up on an old posting, put up a new short message.

best of luck

[unlucky alf]

hi JUSTME, blimey its taken me ages to read this!, right where shall i start, the g/box switch i cleaned out has been changed, it was the one i got on the replacement ar35 box, i havent taken it apart as this came off a working car, had to adjust it & thats as much as i done to it, the ecu has not been changed as yet, the car behaves the same with it totally unplugged [including selector led`s]therefore no signal to nothing, im not driving the car at the mo as i want it right, ive done the paperclip test & have had vx put a tech2 on it, they basically said that if it aint the g/box its the ecu [i know i dont trust them either]he did say that he zeroed the ecu but as soon as he switched it back on it popped up again, but did say that there is zero response from the solenoids [nothing getting to them], engine sensors are something ive little knowledge about so wouldnt know where to look,[you are the first one to mention these] but can tell you the reversing lights work!, so if you can tell me where these sensors are on the engine i`ll see if there is something obvious, oh & whats a ICV? control valve of some sort? anyhow im at the mercy of people who have more experience of miggys as this is my first, i have emailed MARK a couple of times with no response as i needed his full address,[can appreciate he`s been busy] but the tax is now out & got it on a S,O,R,N so it cant go anywhere anyway, anyhow back to you, i do appreciate your help, cheers mate

[justme]

hi JUSTME, blimey its taken me ages to read this!, right where shall i start, the g/box switch i cleaned out has been changed, it was the one i got on the replacement ar35 box, i havent taken it apart as this came off a working car, had to adjust it & thats as much as i done to it, the ecu has not been changed as yet, the car behaves the same with it totally unplugged [including selector led`s]therefore no signal to nothing, im not driving the car at the mo as i want it right, ive done the paperclip test & have had vx put a tech2 on it, they basically said that if it aint the g/box its the ecu [i know i dont trust them either]he did say that he zeroed the ecu but as soon as he switched it back on it popped up again, but did say that there is zero response from the solenoids [nothing getting to them], engine sensors are something ive little knowledge about so wouldnt know where to look,[you are the first one to mention these] but can tell you the reversing lights work!, so if you can tell me where these sensors are on the engine i`ll see if there is something obvious, oh & whats a ICV? control valve of some sort? anyhow im at the mercy of people who have more experience of miggys as this is my first, i have emailed MARK a couple of times with no response as i needed his full address,[can appreciate he`s been busy] but the tax is now out & got it on a S,O,R,N so it cant go anywhere anyway, anyhow back to you, i do appreciate your help, cheers mate

Hi Tim.

     The point being the original was full of oil ? the seal is in the box so just changing the switch aint going to do nothing for the seal.

Thought you were driving it. what do you mean it is the same pluged or not ? Have you tried driving it or are you just checking it dry so to speak. Thought you Had driven it home. If you had then the box and ecu are ok one does not work without the other.

no responce was engine running no responce if it aint.

Mine is also my first but a great car to work on.

ICV = idle control valve r/h side looking from the front on side of rocker cover there is a maintenance guide on here.

If your mixture is to lean will have an effect.

Accelerator cable not adjusted proparly will have an effect.

You will get there part of the joy. And yes you will have a laugh when you find it.

[unlucky alf]

right lets recap, i got the car with the fault,drove home as manual, have changed g/box & switch so hopefully now no oil leak,  also experimented by removing ECU & taking it around the block, it was no different in anyway whatsoever apart from warning not there, so ECU not needed to drive as manual, took to vx had tech2 done, fault listed as low/no voltage to solenoids 1-2/3-4, paperclip test done, no drastic faults there, continuity check done on all wires from box to ecu, all check out, i think ive covered everything apart from changing the ECU, at least if i change it it will eliminate it, so there you have it in a nutshell, i thought that any fault with valves/sensors etc would have shown up on the paperclip test but they didnt, believe me i know my way around cars but sometimes there is something thatll catch you out, just like this one!!, some people call it a learning curve, i call it an absolute arse!!!

[feeutfo]

paper clip test only reads engine ecu so gear box faults will not show. But you probably know that by now. How long til ecu arrives Tim?

[unlucky alf]

christ knows CHRIS, due to the bank holiday the bank transfer didnt get sent by the bank until today despite of setting it up friday[so much for online banking being quicker], so its the case of my mate saying that the money is in his account then for him to post it, dont worry i`ll be pestering him on the phone but i cant give you a time but it better be soon as my interest in the car is wilting with every day that passes .

[justme]

right lets recap, i got the car with the fault,drove home as manual, have changed g/box & switch so hopefully now no oil leak,  also experimented by removing ECU & taking it around the block, it was no different in anyway whatsoever apart from warning not there, so ECU not needed to drive as manual, took to vx had tech2 done, fault listed as low/no voltage to solenoids 1-2/3-4, paperclip test done, no drastic faults there, continuity check done on all wires from box to ecu, all check out, i think ive covered everything apart from changing the ECU, at least if i change it it will eliminate it, so there you have it in a nutshell, i thought that any fault with valves/sensors etc would have shown up on the paperclip test but they didnt, believe me i know my way around cars but sometimes there is something thatll catch you out, just like this one!!, some people call it a learning curve, i call it an absolute arse!!!

hi tim,  When you drove it without the ecu did you actually change gear ? or just drive it slowly in 1 gear around the block. If not then.
VX checked your solonoids via the ecu, there is a reason for that.
did they have ignition on or engine running.

you drove it home in manual, which in itself proves the box and ecu were ok. I am not aware that the solonoids can be checked for voltage without the engine running, and therefore the solonoids energised as required. I am not aware that tech2 delivers such power to the ecu, when checking codes. (Which do give you the codes for what is wrong).
Although there is a permanent 30amp live to the ecu, together with the ignition switched 15amp line. did they give you the ecu codes for the box ?? could get them checked. Although more than possible he did not have a clue about them, the box ecu as the engine ecu normally tell you what part it is unhappy with. the gearbox codes are diffrent to the engine codes i.e. diffrent format and meaning.

Again I would reiterate your box and ecu are for all intent and purpose working correctly as they should.  The ecu is reffering to a sensor.

I certainly would not drive it around without the ecu, unless you can convince yourself as to where the solonoids are being energised from, which are normally switched from the ecu. Unless of course you where driving around the block in 1 gear. Or even perhaps another little helper in the box.

You cannot change gear automatically or manually without the proper working of the solonoids and brakebands. That is an absolute, the ecu can only be checked on the car, again I am not aware the the tech 2 does deliver such energy to the ecu suffiecient to energise the solonoids, Perhaps TB could confirm this.
 
In my book You drove it home originally with a perfectly working box and ecu. Keep checking the sensors 1 * 1 and recheck between.

[Big_Mart]

I have never ever ever ever ever ever ever seen a GM gearbox ecu fail.  I seriously doubt yours has.

Do the LEDs by gearstick always light up as expected, or do the all light up sometimes, or even flash?  If this do not light up properly, change selector switch.

Failing that, need to get gearbox ECU codes read.  There is a nice chap in Nottingham call Marks DTM Calib who can read codes for you, though he is a busy man trying to move house.

The fact that you can still drive like a manual shows the ECU is still functioning.

One last thing, is the Engine Management light on, and if not, does it come on with ign?

Agree with the boy it sound very much like a range switch as i also have never heard of a gearbox ecu failing

[unlucky alf]

when vx checked it they had the ignition on as well as having the engine running, they didnt give me the codes for the box but did write down the fault that was showing [17 present, solenoid 1-2/3-4 voltage low/zero], any other codes showing were in the memory but not active, he also tried a tech1 for some unknown reason but if it made him happy so be it, as for the range switch, is this what i know as the inhibitor switch? also what is sensors 1*1?, im getting more confused than when i started!, so if ive changed the inhibitor switch,g/box & had it tech2 tested & this is telling me fault code 17, what is causing it ?, if a sensor where do i find it/them, ,,,,,cheers,,,,,,,

[justme]

when vx checked it they had the ignition on as well as having the engine running, they didnt give me the codes for the box but did write down the fault that was showing [17 present, solenoid 1-2/3-4 voltage low/zero], any other codes showing were in the memory but not active, he also tried a tech1 for some unknown reason but if it made him happy so be it, as for the range switch, is this what i know as the inhibitor switch? also what is sensors 1*1?, im getting more confused than when i started!, so if ive changed the inhibitor switch,g/box & had it tech2 tested & this is telling me fault code 17, what is causing it ?, if a sensor where do i find it/them, ,,,,,cheers,,,,,,,

No No not confusion just one of those twins again Miss direction.

Your ecu cannot be read by tec2 it is tec1. Tec 2 is facelift approx 2000
code 17 you need to find the interpretation. VX says it is the solonoids with either a low or high voltage.
It would have been handy to know the stored codes.

Your AT switch is fed from pins  33. 8. 26. 23. on ecu
Auto trans 54. 38. 41. 40.
Solenoids 2/3 shift up 16. 32.
               1/2 & 3/4   43. 48    Which is the one in question ?
Oil Temp Sensor 22. 16.
AT output speed sensor 3. 5. 18
LCD instruments 5.
Winter Mode Switch 12. 13.
Ground 19. 35
Kick down switch 15.
There are more which I have not had time to check as yet.
All these connections feed/ or are fed by other components again I have not had the time.

One way may be you now have a spare switch, remove the connection from the box and connect to your spare. Now with the engine running selecting gear (Moving the switch) not selector check the voltages on the pins given. make sure you have a ground connection to the switch.
What the voltages should be I do not know, but compare to pins 16. 32. the 2/3 solonoid should be approx the same. Bear in mind the output speed switch with no output. May have to give it a feed epecially on 2/3 although pressing the winter mode switch would lock into 3rd gear.

That's enough for you to contend with.

[Omegatoy]

Hmm, but i think tech 2 can read the gearbox on an early car? i know my tech1 can but TB has read the box couple of times on the wifes ex motor which was an early one too!!!