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[Sir Fused]

Hi folks...my first ever query and it is urgent, lol.
Firstly, I know very little about cae engines, so please excuse any stupid questions!
I have had an oil leak for a considerable time. This was traced, by garage, to the cam covers, both of which have been replaced. I still have a leak and have now been told the cylinder head gasket has gone and needs replacing....very expensive and I cannot afford it, nor do I think the car is worth that sort of money being spent. I have been told I need 2 cylinder head gaskets, one for each side and that part I understand. I was also told that I need 2 other parts...stretchers I think he called them and I have no idea what they are, but they are very dear, £76 each. Can anyone advise me what they are for and is this normal?
I am also puzzled and this is possibly the stupid question, as to why I am losing oil and not coolant when it is the head gasket?
Finally, a cheaper solution may be to use STEAL SEAL or K SEAL as a solution, given value of car, lack of funds etc. Has anyone tried either of these methods?
My car is an OMEGA 2.5 V6 CD automatic.
Thanks

[Entwood]

DO NOT use additives like K-SEAL ...  you'll make things worse !!

Head gaskets on the V6 are rare .. the engine is pretty robust !!

but

Camcover gaskets blowing because the breathers are blocked is common - the covers DO NOT "warp" .. they are put on too tight !! loads of info on the site about this... easy to do properly yourself ... they will leak externally and fill your plugholes with oil as well as making a mess !!

Next possibility is oil-cooler failure ... this will happen if the car has an old non-stainless cooler and the 50/50 antifreeze mix has not been maintained ... the cooler corrodes and leaks .. filling the water system with gunge which is hard to clean ..  again .. loads of info on the site ... not changed this myself .. but is, apparently .. "do-able"

To search the site .. I suggest you DON'T use the search facility .. it is pretty poor .. use google, advanced search, type the search words on the top line .. and www.omegaowners.com in the bottom line .. where it says "domain" .. I put 100 in the reults per page as well ..  that's my preference !!

If the leak is "external" my money is on the camcovers not being done properly and/or the breathers never being cleaned.

HTH

[markey mark]

very rare head gaskets fella ! fill your profile in so we know what car and were you are in country mate  

[Sir Fused]

Many thanks for prompt reply. The mechanic who has done all the work, much of it free and in own time, has apparently checked the cam covers again and said they are ok, but that there is a small leak from the cylinder head..oil. This is the bit that puzzles me, perhaps stupidly, but I thought it would have been coolant. I am still puzzled as to what the stretchers are...was given full name, but cannot remember, but was advised that it is dodgy to re-use the ones on the car?
The only reason taht I have considered the Steal Seal etc, is because the car will be scrapped if it is going to cost £600 to repair, which is what I have been quoted (10.5 hrs labour, then parts and VAT). So spending £10 - £50 depending on the additive...if it worked, fine, if not, then all I have lost is a relative small amount. But I do take on board what you have said bout them.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Hmmm.....I always getting a little edgy when people start mentionng cylinder head gasket oil leaks as it often smells of poorly thought out diag!

Consider that there is only one high pressure oil way through the head gasket which is located towards the cambelt area and is a reasonable distance from the edge of the head.

Consider also that (when working correctly), the crank case is maintained at a slight vaccum via the breathers.

I would strongly suspect that the cam cover will ahev been changed and one or more of the following fundamental mistakes will have been made:

1) The full breather system was not cleaned and checked resulting in the crank case still being pressurised and hance oil forced out the cam covers again.

2) Cheap pattern gaskets have been used, I have done a VERY large number of these now and the pattern alternatives are not worth the money!

[Sir Fused]

Hi again. Profile updated now.
To my knowledge, the cam cover gaskets were genuine Vauxhall ones. The problem first originated early this year when I had a complete cam cover gasket failure and engine, plugs etc filled with oil.
This seal was replaced.  The problem returned ande the other camcover gasket had started to go. This was replaced, but an oil leak was still present. A breather tube, not sure which one, was then found to be leaking, which was fixed. Now I am back, still an oil leak, external and to me, appears to be around the same area...but I am going by where the oil lands on the ground...not very scientific, lol!
I have felt that the temperature appears to rise to max very quickly, before fans bring this under control. I know the coolant needs replaced, which may not help the problem.

[Entwood]

mmmm .. nowhere in your description above is mention of the breather system being cleaned .. it is this blocking up that causes the cam cover gaskets to "blow" as they release excess pressure - good job in a way as they act like a safety valve ...

If the breathers are not cleaned when the gaskets are replaced the cause of the original problem remains .. .. and the new gaskets will blow again.

It is also quite important how much, and which type of sealant is used in very specific places when changing the gaskets...

Have a read here .. might explain better than me ... first one is breathers, second is cam covers ...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152598350

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564281

[Marks DTM Calib]

To add further.

Here is a photo of a V6 head with the various sections coloured



Blue: Coolant
Brown: Oil return
Red: Oil feed

Note, the oil feed is on the valley side!

[Alex Wood]

I reckon the "stretchers" he's talking about are the head bolts. They stretch! Mahoosive things and I've never had to buy them so I can believe that a full set would cost £76, could be wrong though.

On the coolant, are you losing any at all? Do you have the aircon in ECO mode? This shuts down the front 2 fans and as a result the engine will heat up more quickly until the big cooling fan behind the main rad cuts in. Does the temp drop back down to half way after the fans have cut in?

[Sir Fused]

Hi Alex and thanks for reply, appreciated! Yes, have found out what the stretchers are and that is just as you say. Not lost any coolant as far as I know. I do not put the air conditioning on at all.....I believe it affects fuel costs and trying to cut down, lol. Equally ECO mode not on. Yes, temp eventually drops down when fans kick in, just that it goes all the way to top so soon, never seen that in previous cars.
Have spoken to mechanic this afternoon...he is a great guy and has helped me a lot...adament that breather pipes fully cleaned, but agreed that it was very unusual for CHG to go..he had only experienced it once and he is an ex- Vauxhall mechanic....but, he is equally adament that it is the  

[Sir Fused]

(Sorrry, not sure what happened there, but posted before I had finished, lol) CHG that has gone. He has tried one of the 'miricle' cure additives before, not in a Vauxhall, but it worked perfectly.
Given the value of car and the cost of proper repair, which I cannot afford anyway, I have to go with the additive solution, I feel I have nothing to lose. Mechanics advice was to have full repair done, but appreciated my circumstances.
I will let you all know the outcome, good or bad.
Kenny

[Marks DTM Calib]

Hi Alex and thanks for reply, appreciated! Yes, have found out what the stretchers are and that is just as you say. Not lost any coolant as far as I know. I do not put the air conditioning on at all.....I believe it affects fuel costs and trying to cut down, lol. Equally ECO mode not on. Yes, temp eventually drops down when fans kick in, just that it goes all the way to top so soon, never seen that in previous cars.
Have spoken to mechanic this afternoon...he is a great guy and has helped me a lot...adament that breather pipes fully cleaned, but agreed that it was very unusual for CHG to go..he had only experienced it once and he is an ex- Vauxhall mechanic....but, he is equally adament that it is the  

Does not inspire me.....not convinced!

The bolts are about 20-25 quid for a full set, head gaskets are 25 quid a pair, 60 quid for cam cover gaskets, you then need dowty washers and its worth changing the manifold gaskets to...plus a few odds and sods, oil, filter etc.

I would say, about 150 in bits without cambelt.

[Marks DTM Calib]

(Sorrry, not sure what happened there, but posted before I had finished, lol) CHG that has gone. He has tried one of the 'miricle' cure additives before, not in a Vauxhall, but it worked perfectly.
Given the value of car and the cost of proper repair, which I cannot afford anyway, I have to go with the additive solution, I feel I have nothing to lose. Mechanics advice was to have full repair done, but appreciated my circumstances.
I will let you all know the outcome, good or bad.
Kenny

Does not sound totaly compitent to me......if, the headgasket had an oil leak along that edge and the breathers were clear then it would be drawing air in not throwing oil out!

[Alex Wood]

And I'd say your cooling system's fine, aircon off means no twin fans, just like ECO mode. That means it'll heat up quick but if it's going back to halfway all is well.

How bad is the oil leak? If it's manageable I'd personally be inclined to get some miles under the wheels and see if it gets any worse, no point in pulling everything apart before you really need to.

[sev]

I have to say after reading this thread that I'm behind Mark DTM.

If it's the head gasket, believe me, they'll be no way that the fans will be able to bring the temperature down once it's in an advanced stage.

Also I'm sure that the breather pipes may have been cleaned out, but the breather itself and the breather box on the plenum might not have been.

Also remeber that indipendent mechanics use a lot of factor parts as the profit margin on these is far greater than main dealer trade prices.
(i've just bought a set of ATE rear discs at 14 per side  - retail at 29.99 per side +vat).

For gaskets, i'd definitely go with main dealers every time, as you always suffer six months down the line if you dont.

My reckoning is poor rocker cover gasket installation.  To do it with full peace of mind it's advisabe to always strip completely down to the part, as then you have full clearance, and you can check and make sure that you seat the rear half moon properly - which is another sure fire way of goofing up a cover gasket change if you're not carefull.

Remember also that there is the sealant paste - essential to ensure a proper seal around those tight corners.  Most mechanics won't bother with details such as this, as it all adds to the costs.

IMHO, get a genuine vauxhall kit, and follow the guide to do it yourself.
Wipe the engine clean, and any residual oil will burn itself off with a short drive.  Bodge juice doesn't really wash with high crank pressure V-engine blocks.

Also look at where the leak is coming from - if there's oil on the heatshields after you've given them a good clean - then it's cam cover gaskets for sure.