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Author Topic: Shuddering & Petrol Smell  (Read 3685 times)

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Jimbob

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Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« on: 16 March 2009, 12:08:30 »
Ljay's 3.0 MV6 Manual....

Idle is fairly good, stays within 10rpm of 700 (does now after IAC clean anyway)

However there is a fair shudder, and a smell of petrol

Plugs were changed under a year ago, no evidence of a misfire.

Both manifold gaskets have been changed, however the passenger side is only held on with one stud, although there is no ticking when cold.

Here is the live data....

Measuring blocks information:      
      
Identifier      1D
Battery Voltage      13.5 V
Immobiliser Signal      Received
Immobiliser      Active
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0.45 V
Simulated Idle Position      Active
Simulated Full Load Switch      Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor      0.71 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor      11 kg/h
Coolant Temperature      0.97 V
Coolant Temperature      91 °C
Intake Air Temperature      2.73 V
Intake Air Temperature      39 °C
Engine Type      6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding      Manual Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch      P - N  0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)      Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light)      Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay      Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)      10 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5      Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)      Load
Knock Signal      Inactive
Knock Retard      0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay      Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)      Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)      0.76 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve      0%
O2 Sensor 1      215 mV
O2 Sensor 2      146 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1      Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2      Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1      Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2      Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator      144 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      137
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      219 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      189 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)      130 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)      121 Steps
Hall Sensor      Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse      Active
Engine Speed      693 RPM
Idle Air Control      149 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)      122 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)      152 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)      124 Steps
Desired Idle Air      10 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air      10 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed      700 RPM
Injection Pulse      3.3 ms
Engine Load Signal      0.9 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse      Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed      0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1      Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2      Inactive 12V
Torque Control      Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)      Active 0V
Diagnostic Request      Inactive 5V

Ill post the same from mine for comparison as well....
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tunnie

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #1 on: 16 March 2009, 12:11:41 »
leaky injector(s) on the fuel rail bag pipes?

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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #2 on: 16 March 2009, 12:13:33 »
For comparison....
Value    Ljay   Jimbob

Identifier      1D      1D
Battery Voltage      13.5 V      14.1 V
Immobiliser Signal      Received      Not Received
Immobiliser      Active      Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0.45 V      0.51 V
Simulated Idle Position      Active      Active
Simulated Full Load Switch      Inactive      Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor      0.71 V      1.46 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor      11 kg/h      50 kg/h
Coolant Temperature      0.97 V      3.68 V
Coolant Temperature      91 °C      16 °C
Intake Air Temperature      2.73 V      3.66 V
Intake Air Temperature      39 °C      17 °C
Engine Type      6 Cylinder      6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding      Manual Transmission      Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch      P - N  0V      P - N  0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)      Active 12V      Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V      Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light)      Off 12V      Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay      Active 0V      Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)      10 °CA      2 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)      Load      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5      Spark      Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)      Load      Load
Knock Signal      Inactive      Inactive
Knock Retard      0 °CA      0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)      Inactive      Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)      0.76 V      0.78 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve      0%      0%
O2 Sensor 1      215 mV      566 mV
O2 Sensor 2      146 mV      546 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1      Closed      Open
O2 Sensor Loop 2      Closed      Open
Air/Fuel Ratio 1      Lean      Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2      Lean      Rich
O2-Loop 1 Integrator      144 Steps      128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      137      128
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      219 Steps      249 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      189 Steps      100 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)      130 Steps      129 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)      121 Steps      125 Steps
Hall Sensor      Inactive      Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse      Active      Inactive
Engine Speed      693 RPM      1.305 RPM
Idle Air Control      149 Steps      109 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)      122 Steps      128 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)      152 Steps      129 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)      124 Steps      124 Steps
Desired Idle Air      10 kg/h      42 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air      10 kg/h      42 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed      700 RPM      1.300 RPM
Injection Pulse      3.3 ms      6.0 ms
Engine Load Signal      0.9 ms      2.2 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0%      0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse      Not Received 12V      Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed      0 km/h      0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
Torque Control      Inactive      Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)      Active 0V      Active 0V
Diagnostic Request      Inactive 5V      Inactive 5V
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #3 on: 16 March 2009, 12:14:40 »
Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.
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TheBoy

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #4 on: 16 March 2009, 12:41:47 »
HT related?  :-/

eg DIS?
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #5 on: 16 March 2009, 12:50:11 »
Quote
HT related?  :-/

eg DIS?

Does it at idle, no misfire I can detect  :-/
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feeutfo

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #6 on: 16 March 2009, 13:05:25 »
got a nice wack by touching the cap and plenum on a 2.5 yesterday. Wondered after if i should have used a meter. :-)
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #7 on: 16 March 2009, 13:39:50 »
My initial thoughts were DIS or HT leads.
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #8 on: 16 March 2009, 13:43:09 »
Cheers, Was my 1st thought, but wouldnt you need a misfire for that?

My warm live data coming up soon....

Ahh well, if i've gotta do one, may as well do dis, leads and new plugs to be on the sure side.

It does seem a little down on power as well  :-/  bit slower through the whole rev range.
« Last Edit: 16 March 2009, 13:43:53 by jimbob »
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #9 on: 16 March 2009, 13:45:17 »
Quote
Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.

Quote
Desired Idle Air      10 kg/h      42 kg/h

I was going to say - take the brick off the accelerator!

Is the smell of fuel from the exhaust outlet or the oily thing at the other end?

I would say an ignition misfire too but if it's just running "fluffy" perhaps it's running rich. Lambda loops are closed and fuel trim is not that high though...

Does it misbehave straight from a cold start or only when up to temperature? Any misfire under load, etc or is it just odd when idling?

EGR valve OK? Worth cheaning / blanking it off for a check?

Kevin
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #10 on: 16 March 2009, 13:52:41 »
Quote
Quote
Edit, hers was hot, mine cold, will repost after a drive in mine later.

Quote
Desired Idle Air      10 kg/h      42 kg/h

I was going to say - take the brick off the accelerator!

Is the smell of fuel from the exhaust outlet or the oily thing at the other end?

I would say an ignition misfire too but if it's just running "fluffy" perhaps it's running rich. Lambda loops are closed and fuel trim is not that high though...

Does it misbehave straight from a cold start or only when up to temperature? Any misfire under load, etc or is it just odd when idling?

EGR valve OK? Worth cheaning / blanking it off for a check?

Kevin

Smell is in the car.
misbehaviour is constant, at idle, couldnt get a misfire, redlined in several gears to try.
EGR was leaking, is blanked.

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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #11 on: 16 March 2009, 13:54:01 »
What state are the fuel lines that connect to the the tank in (under the metal plate in the boot)
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #12 on: 16 March 2009, 13:57:37 »
Quote
What state are the fuel lines that connect to the the tank in (under the metal plate in the boot)


I'll just go and check.....
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #13 on: 16 March 2009, 14:07:09 »
Warm - Warm live data....

Measuring blocks information:            
      Ljay      Jimbob
Identifier      1D      1D
Battery Voltage      13.5 V      13.4 V
Immobiliser Signal      Received      Not Received
Immobiliser      Active      Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0.45 V      0.51 V
Simulated Idle Position      Active      Active
Simulated Full Load Switch      Inactive      Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor      0.71 V      0.77 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor      11 kg/h      14 kg/h
Coolant Temperature      0.97 V      0.94 V
Coolant Temperature      91 °C      93 °C
Intake Air Temperature      2.73 V      3.16 V
Intake Air Temperature      39 °C      29 °C
Engine Type      6 Cylinder      6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding      Manual Transmission      Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch      P - N  0V      P - N  0V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning)      Active 12V      Active 12V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning)      Inactive 0V      Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light)      Off 12V      Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay      Active 0V      Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre)      10 °CA      10 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder)      Load      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5      Spark      Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder)      Load      Load
Knock Signal      Inactive      Inactive
Knock Retard      0 °CA      0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)      Inactive      Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)      0.76 V      0.78 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve      0%      0%
O2 Sensor 1      215 mV      283 mV
O2 Sensor 2      146 mV      302 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1      Closed      Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2      Closed      Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1      Lean      Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2      Lean      Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator      144 Steps      152 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator      137      135
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      219 Steps      128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map)      189 Steps      128 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map)      130 Steps      128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map)      121 Steps      128 Steps
Hall Sensor      Inactive      Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse      Active      Inactive
Engine Speed      693 RPM      693 RPM
Idle Air Control      149 Steps      135 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control)      122 Steps      124 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control)      152 Steps      160 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control)      124 Steps      127 Steps
Desired Idle Air      10 kg/h      12 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air      10 kg/h      12 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed      700 RPM      700 RPM
Injection Pulse      3.3 ms      3.5 ms
Engine Load Signal      0.9 ms      1.1 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor)      0%      0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse      Not Received 12V      Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed      0 km/h      0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2      Inactive 12V      Inactive 12V
Torque Control      Inactive      Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning)      Active 0V      Active 0V
Diagnostic Request      Inactive 5V      Inactive 5V
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Jimbob

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Re: Shuddering & Petrol Smell
« Reply #14 on: 16 March 2009, 14:11:31 »
fuel pipes :

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